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Old 12-18-2012, 08:21 PM   #81
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Default Re: Another school shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssc456 View Post
In regards to your second point, as somebody else mentioned, guns are meant to kill, you can argue they are meant to defend yourself but defend how? By shooting someone . . . . therefore to kill.
Cars are meant to transport people.

You can't compare those things.
How flawed your thinking is!!!

MY rifles are designed for hunting animals for me to eat game meat or destruction of feral pests (animals) therefore for not for killing people, was not designed for that purpose....
I do not own weapons to defend or use against people....
Should I still be banned from ownership of guns....

Irresponsible drivers of cars can kill.

A lot of actions us human beings do can kill.

Do we ban these actions.

I & others do have the right to compare these.

I honestly believe you are on an emotional response & not thinking logically as to why these shootings happened and deal with the real reason behind them.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:08 PM   #82
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Default Re: Another school shooting

Ah good old CF, I remember a gun debate here years ago. This place is full of Europeans who think their opinions mean something to Americans. We are nut jobs who love our guns, and you just hate that so much.

Frankly I'm more concerned with real problems, like mental healthcare and suicides. Around 10,000 people die each year in the US from firearms (many of which are suicide related), which is just a drop in the bucket compared to all the other things killing us.

Our population is far larger than most countries statistics ever compare us to, but I guess it sounds cool to say 10,000 people die each year from guns in the US compared to some other country that has less than 100 but also a population that is a drop in the bucket by comparison... can't imagine why more people = higher numbers in all statistics..

To answer the basic question this thread is trying to ask (Why do you need a gun?) It's for personal protection. You think I'm being paranoid? Perhaps you have never been mugged before. Often they don't just smack you and take your goods, sometimes they feel the need to slit your throat while they're at it.

If violence in the US was comparable to violence in Japan, I would happily disarm. You can't compare the two countries though, our societies are completely different. The US is huge, with cities full of very different racial backgrounds and tensions. We're pretty angry people, and if you swooped in and took our guns away, you'd probably find homicide by knives and other weapons would go up in lieu of guns being out of the equation.. you'd also find more innocent people dying due to lack of being able to protect themselves.

There is no simple answer to this violence problem, and you people who think it is as simple as banning firearms are not seeing the bigger picture.

There is only one thing I look at as fact: If one of those faculty members at that school in CT were carrying a gun, there would be a lot less dead kids in that school. (Queue the counter-argument that it would just make it worse because you obviously know exactly how it would have played out.)
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:40 PM   #83
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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Originally Posted by MikeReiner View Post
Ah good old CF, I remember a gun debate here years ago. This place is full of Europeans who think their opinions mean something to Americans. We are nut jobs who love our guns, and you just hate that so much.

Frankly I'm more concerned with real problems, like mental healthcare and suicides. Around 10,000 people die each year in the US from firearms (many of which are suicide related), which is just a drop in the bucket compared to all the other things killing us.

Our population is far larger than most countries statistics ever compare us to, but I guess it sounds cool to say 10,000 people die each year from guns in the US compared to some other country that has less than 100 but also a population that is a drop in the bucket by comparison... can't imagine why more people = higher numbers in all statistics..

To answer the basic question this thread is trying to ask (Why do you need a gun?) It's for personal protection. You think I'm being paranoid? Perhaps you have never been mugged before. Often they don't just smack you and take your goods, sometimes they feel the need to slit your throat while they're at it.

If violence in the US was comparable to violence in Japan, I would happily disarm. You can't compare the two countries though, our societies are completely different. The US is huge, with cities full of very different racial backgrounds and tensions. We're pretty angry people, and if you swooped in and took our guns away, you'd probably find homicide by knives and other weapons would go up in lieu of guns being out of the equation.. you'd also find more innocent people dying due to lack of being able to protect themselves.

There is no simple answer to this violence problem, and you people who think it is as simple as banning firearms are not seeing the bigger picture.

There is only one thing I look at as fact: If one of those faculty members at that school in CT were carrying a gun, there would be a lot less dead kids in that school. (Queue the counter-argument that it would just make it worse because you obviously know exactly how it would have played out.)
But aren't prisons (no guns) completely violence free? Take the guns away from the criminals and they are peaceful! /end sarcasm.

It's a wonder that almost all killings like what happened friday happen in "gun free" zones.
“With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

The Facts about Mass Shootings - John Fund - National Review Online

Anyone that seriously believes that banning guns in America would keep them out of the hands of criminals is being quite ignorant to say the least...
If our country didn't already have 200 million fire arms, then maybe that would be different. Triads in China still don't have any issues getting firearms though...
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:19 AM   #84
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Default Re: Another school shooting

Outside the gun debate:

Why did his mother have multiple assault rifles with already loaded extended clips of ammunition? Every explanation for why she had them is full of crap. They make her out to be a shooting enthusiast... who happened to leave multiple high powered weapons that were loaded with/around "hundreds of rounds," not locked up, not locked at all, just waiting to be fired.

Comment on scene
Quote:
"There was a lot of ammo, a lot of clips," said state police Lt. Paul Vance.
Re: His mother...
Quote:
“No one has heard of her,” said Lillian Bittman, who served on the local school board until 2011. “Teachers don’t know her.”
She didn't teach at the school, nor substitute. Yet, the kid went there? Armed to the teeth? After shooting 26 people he then feels bad and shoots himself. Skeptical cat, is skeptical.

Now comes the ensuing media circus, political bull and our puppet in chief faking a tear on TV and vowing to make sure it never happens again.

Quote:
Hitler introduced his party as such, “We are socialists. We are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system, for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of the human being according to wealth and property, instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” He outlined his plan in his book Mein Kampf, which was published in 1925. (Plan | Propaganda - check) In which he speaks of an alleged Jewish conspiracy to gain world leadership; (Common enemy - check) Hitler used his anti-Semitic view and his charming persuasion to get people to follow him. (Uneducated and loyal subjects - check) Hitler was appointed as Chancellor of Germany on January 30th, 1933. Germans believed that Hitler’s socialist society would work, and his racist views were true and accurate. Hitler’s German army was sworn to do everything Hitler had ordered, making citizens powerless to change what Hitler was doing (People now afraid of shadow - check | YOU ARE HERE). Hitler began to make his own rules and began to mobilize the military in violation of the Versailles Treaty. The German army even burned children, as witnessed by Elie Wiesel in Night, “They were burning something. A lorry drew up at the pit and delivered its load -- little children. Babies!”
Almost like there's a "Controlling stupid people" walkthrough somewhere...

Please stop eating the crap they feed you... please. The constant attention grabbers and fear mongering drama on TV are draining.

Next time you hear something on FauxNews, or any news channel/article, you should ask a question before you form an opinion.

"What's missing in that story?"

Now, go investigate. Often times, you find the truth to be wildly different than the report.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:51 AM   #85
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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I see you do not trust Governments & Media.... People should be skeptical of government policies.

News Media is known to lie, fabricate & twist facts.

Governments are known to do the same as news Media and people should read their History as History is known to repeat it self.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:45 PM   #86
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Default Re: Another school shooting

I used to be a very effective killing machine for the government... I have seen first hand what they are capable of and where their priorities truly lie. So much so that talking about those events will land me in a box, never to be seen again.

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."
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Old 12-20-2012, 07:45 AM   #87
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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Originally Posted by MMM View Post
How flawed your thinking is!!!

MY rifles are designed for hunting animals for me to eat game meat or destruction of feral pests (animals) therefore for not for killing people, was not designed for that purpose....
I do not own weapons to defend or use against people....
Should I still be banned from ownership of guns....
Assault riffles are not for use on animals.
Hand guns are not for animal control.
The last I heard Pests don't wear bullet proof vests, yet armour piercing rounds are perfectly legal to buy.
A sniper riffle is not for hunting.
a fully automatic weapon has no place in hunting. (kinda takes the sport out of it)

A gun is a tool, as pointed out earlier in the thread, much like a hammer it can be used correctly, (for example shooting game bird with a shotgun, or hammering a nail with a hammer), it may also be used incorrectly, (for example shooting a person with a shot gun, or bludgeoning a skull with a hammer). likewise a kitchen knife is designed for slicing flesh, we just hope that the flesh being sliced is animal and not human. the fact that some people use a tool incorrectly does not mean that the given tool should be banned.

Whilst there are no actual controls on the sale of hammers, I think that the hardware store cashier would likely be found criminally negligent if they sold a hammer to a guy covered in blood telling them he lost his last hammer inside a man skull.

However,
The fact remains that there are a lot of guns whose entire point is human killing.
A handgun for example has no place in pest control, and very little place in hunting. it is designed for people killing.

If you feel that a gun is for protection. (i.e I can brandish a weapon and scare someone away) then you should consider buying a plastic toy that just looks like a gun.

If you draw a weapon for self defence, then you are drawing a weapon in a you or me situation, where you want to survive, and I may have to die because of that.
-i.e you're not pulling a weapon to "scare" someone, you're pulling a weapon with the intent to kill someone.

I don't think that anybody advocates the complete banning of all firearms and taking away those used for sport.

What is being advocated is the removal of tools specifically designed to end human life. and tight control of tools used to end animal life.

You can argue that a high power riffle is a hunting tool and I'll agree.
It's completely reasonable for a person living in "hunting country" to own one.
But I wonder a guy living in the centre of Manhattan actually ever goes hunting, does said person have a legitimate reason to own that gun? and should they be able to own that gun?

My opinion is:
I recognise that a high power riffle is a legitimate hunting tool.
should it be banned -No.
should legitimate ownership be tightly controlled - Yes.


by tightly controlled what I mean is with background checks for Crime Records, any relevant medical history checks etc.
controlling the environment that guns are stored in means that you should need to keep them locked away.

the age where kids are pulling guns from under mommys bed and killing other kids should be long gone by now.

Even without gun control it's pretty simple.
If you want to own a gun, educate your kids about guns, how to use them and when not to use them.
keep the guns locked away so that the kids can't get them.

and to be honest, those people that aren't responsible enough to teach their kids or lock their guns away, are exactly the kinds of people I'm saying should not be allowed to own a gun.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:29 PM   #88
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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Originally Posted by superman22x View Post
Anyone that seriously believes that banning guns in America would keep them out of the hands of criminals is being quite ignorant to say the least...
If our country didn't already have 200 million fire arms, then maybe that would be different. Triads in China still don't have any issues getting firearms though...
I'm not arguing we should ban guns...but I can't believe you people are comparing guns with knives. Both can inflict damage, but one is much deadlier than the other.



---------- Post added at 09:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------

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Old 12-20-2012, 01:51 PM   #89
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Default Re: Another school shooting

First thing. Automatic assault rifles are not available to anyone. They are illegal in the United States. It's possible to modify rifles to make them automatic. That is illegal though.

His other points about getting guns easily at trade shows needs to change, I do agree with that.

His idea of banning guns comparing to seat belts is goofy. The guns don't disappear... Criminals will EASILY get them. The idea is to keep the guns in the hands of the innocent for defense against the criminals.

He noted that 6 of the 10 worst shootings happened in recent years. He must have missed that they all happened in areas where weapons of any type are banned. Someone must have forgotten to tell the shooter that weapons were banned though, otherwise, surely he would have left his guns at the entrance.

That video is quite honestly a perfect example of the ignorance of people that insist on gun control.

I can almost guarantee that it will not happen for other reasons though. Money. There is WAY too much money in the weapons industry for them to be banned in America. Money talks.

I do agree that guns are dangerous and made for killing.
Cars are made for getting to and from places. However, people like me use them purely for enjoyment: racing. Guns can be used in the same way, target shooting at a range. I have only ever shot a gun at a target range. The first gun I shot was an AR-15. It was fun. I've never even wanted to go hunting however. Guns can be owned purely for target shooting. And many people use them for just that.

The funny thing is, every time Obama and guns come up, prices double. If Obama keeps up this talk, gun and ammunition manufacturer's profits will be so high, there will be even less of a chance of a ban, lol. The day after Obama's reelection, every store in my town was sold out of ammunition. And I live in the UP, the only thing sold more than Ammunition is Pasty's. They were well stocked, especially since it was close to opening weekend. Which is practically a bigger holiday than Christmas, New Years, and Thanksgiving combined up here.

People say the same things about sports cars (unnecessary).

http://www.facebook.com/BanTheFordMustang?group_id=0
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:31 PM   #90
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Default Re: Another school shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by root View Post
Assault riffles are not for use on animals.
Hand guns are not for animal control.
The last I heard Pests don't wear bullet proof vests, yet armour piercing rounds are perfectly legal to buy.
A sniper riffle is not for hunting.
a fully automatic weapon has no place in hunting. (kinda takes the sport out of it)

A gun is a tool, as pointed out earlier in the thread, much like a hammer it can be used correctly, (for example shooting game bird with a shotgun, or hammering a nail with a hammer), it may also be used incorrectly, (for example shooting a person with a shot gun, or bludgeoning a skull with a hammer). likewise a kitchen knife is designed for slicing flesh, we just hope that the flesh being sliced is animal and not human. the fact that some people use a tool incorrectly does not mean that the given tool should be banned.

Whilst there are no actual controls on the sale of hammers, I think that the hardware store cashier would likely be found criminally negligent if they sold a hammer to a guy covered in blood telling them he lost his last hammer inside a man skull.

However,
The fact remains that there are a lot of guns whose entire point is human killing.
A handgun for example has no place in pest control, and very little place in hunting. it is designed for people killing.

If you feel that a gun is for protection. (i.e I can brandish a weapon and scare someone away) then you should consider buying a plastic toy that just looks like a gun.

If you draw a weapon for self defence, then you are drawing a weapon in a you or me situation, where you want to survive, and I may have to die because of that.
-i.e you're not pulling a weapon to "scare" someone, you're pulling a weapon with the intent to kill someone.

I don't think that anybody advocates the complete banning of all firearms and taking away those used for sport.

What is being advocated is the removal of tools specifically designed to end human life. and tight control of tools used to end animal life.

You can argue that a high power riffle is a hunting tool and I'll agree.
It's completely reasonable for a person living in "hunting country" to own one.
But I wonder a guy living in the centre of Manhattan actually ever goes hunting, does said person have a legitimate reason to own that gun? and should they be able to own that gun?

My opinion is:
I recognise that a high power riffle is a legitimate hunting tool.
should it be banned -No.
should legitimate ownership be tightly controlled - Yes.


by tightly controlled what I mean is with background checks for Crime Records, any relevant medical history checks etc.
controlling the environment that guns are stored in means that you should need to keep them locked away.

the age where kids are pulling guns from under mommys bed and killing other kids should be long gone by now.

Even without gun control it's pretty simple.
If you want to own a gun, educate your kids about guns, how to use them and when not to use them.
keep the guns locked away so that the kids can't get them.

and to be honest, those people that aren't responsible enough to teach their kids or lock their guns away, are exactly the kinds of people I'm saying should not be allowed to own a gun.
You make some very good points and no argument from me and I certainly back you on them.
What I hate most is people who have valid weapons for certain purposes get caught up in the hysteria and are penalized for the wrong reasons.
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