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Old 12-18-2012, 06:07 AM   #61
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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Originally Posted by 01001010 View Post
I can't believe I need to spell this out for you people: it's easier to kill someone with a gun than a knife. China had 21 stabbings, not 21 deaths.

If the killer had a gun, you can be sure the story would have changed to something much more tragic and gruesome. Again, 21 stabbings, not 21 deaths. There's a huge freaking difference here.

Come on. This isn't rocket science.

It's easier to kill using a gun.
Over here in Australia in the late 90's we had laws forced upon us in Gun buy back in which certain type of firearms were outlawed.
Yes our number of guns were reduced, Firearm deaths reduced but the homicide crime has increased over the years with knifes & other implements.

I think that makes your comment irrelevant when it comes to homicide.

I'm not being a smart arse but this is fact.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:14 AM   #62
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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Originally Posted by MMM View Post
I think the answer to the real problem is why are people committing these acts of crime and how do you go about identifying and stopping the mentally ill people.
Have a look at the violence in films, computer games.... the list goes on.
Banning guns is not a real solution, yeah you might get law abiding citizens to hand in weapons but the real crims won't and to be honest how many sane people have actually massacred people..... been proven every time a person involved in these tragedies have had a history of psychological problems.

Maybe your gun licencing system for checks & balances of peoples suitability will achieve a better result.
I think the thing about this is the people that are committing these horrific crimes are NOT your "everyday" criminal. As I said before this isn't your average burglar or even rapist doing this it tends to be a relatively normal person that one day just snaps. So yes I believe that if you catch this person before they have "snapped" then they would hand in their guns.

I'm still not saying that everyone will hand them in of course they won't BUT I just cannot comprehend letting civilian people hand guns. It completely confuses me.

I just think the average person may have days of rage or anger where ordinarily he could punch someone or as you say stab someone, and i'm not saying this is right but it's better than being shot. You annoy someone with a gun that isn't in the right mental position and it's asking for trouble.

Yes I AGREE GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.

However if you STOP THOSE PEOPLE FROM HAVING GUNS then they are far LESS LIKELY TO KILL PEOPLE!!

and you talk about knives, if you walk down the street in the UK with a knife on you the police will take it off you and arrest you, the same with a can of petrol, you will be questioned if you can't prove you have broken down or are using it for a genuine reason it will be taken off you.

But yet in the states you could easily walk around with a gun and it be legal?
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:41 AM   #63
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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Originally Posted by ssc456 View Post
I think the thing about this is the people that are committing these horrific crimes are NOT your "everyday" criminal. As I said before this isn't your average burglar or even rapist doing this it tends to be a relatively normal person that one day just snaps. So yes I believe that if you catch this person before they have "snapped" then they would hand in their guns.

I'm still not saying that everyone will hand them in of course they won't BUT I just cannot comprehend letting civilian people hand guns. It completely confuses me.

I just think the average person may have days of rage or anger where ordinarily he could punch someone or as you say stab someone, and i'm not saying this is right but it's better than being shot. You annoy someone with a gun that isn't in the right mental position and it's asking for trouble.

Yes I AGREE GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.

However if you STOP THOSE PEOPLE FROM HAVING GUNS then they are far LESS LIKELY TO KILL PEOPLE!!

and you talk about knives, if you walk down the street in the UK with a knife on you the police will take it off you and arrest you, the same with a can of petrol, you will be questioned if you can't prove you have broken down or are using it for a genuine reason it will be taken off you.

But yet in the states you could easily walk around with a gun and it be legal?
If you care to read the facts reported in the media the perpetrator mentioned had for weeks displayed signs of psychological problems well & truly before this incident happened.

Why punish the Law abiding citizens, look at the root cause of the problem why these crimes are committed.

Contradiction in your own statement

"Yes I AGREE GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.

However if you STOP THOSE PEOPLE FROM HAVING GUNS then they are far LESS LIKELY TO KILL PEOPLE!! "

Taking guns away does not stop people from harming others.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:02 AM   #64
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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Originally Posted by MMM View Post
If you care to read the facts reported in the media the perpetrator mentioned had for weeks displayed signs of psychological problems well & truly before this incident happened.

Why punish the Law abiding citizens, look at the root cause of the problem why these crimes are committed.

Contradiction in your own statement

"Yes I AGREE GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.

However if you STOP THOSE PEOPLE FROM HAVING GUNS then they are far LESS LIKELY TO KILL PEOPLE!! "

Taking guns away does not stop people from harming others.
You'd think the capital letters would have been enough to draw your attention to the fact that I said LESS LIKELY TO KILL PEOPLE.

Also why is making it illegal to own a gun "punishing law abiding citizens"?
I fail to see this as a punishment?

What happens when you are told you are not allowed to own a gun? You break down in tears? Feel like a family member has been lost? What? What is so great of a punishment that it is not worth giving up your right to own a gun to save the lives of thousands?
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:03 AM   #65
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
Rappers do?

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why do we need guns, this country was founded on freedoms. Freedom is not free. Right down to the last man, woman, and child old enough to pull the trigger, we will defend this country. If the need arises we will pick up our guns and man the line. Just like the Minutemen did when we fought for freedom, and our very lives all those years ago.
The right to bear arms and form militia seems like a great idea. and in the way back when this was a good idea, people could essentially buy the same weapons and cause the same death at the same rate as the corrupt government (like the British rule of colonial America)

What do you think will happen if your government is corrupt and intent on keeping it's citizens down now? do you really think that your walmart gun is going to be any match for anything that the military have?


Quote:
What if then the fledgling government said we couldn't have our personal guns. The British would have rolled in and things would have turned out a lot differently.
That's a stupid argument.
the law allowing you to have guns was written after the war of independence.
you're saying a law drafted after an event led to victory in the event?

Also see above, I don't really care what gun you have, and how many time you've been to the range target shooting, your gun is no match for the armys guns, trained soldiers, helicopters, bombs, tanks, armoured carriers...

the gun you have, that's a gun that you have for fun. given that other people also have guns (I mean "bad" people) you may find it necessary to have a gun for your personal protection from your fellow citizens.

but the idea that you're going to form militia, defend your country, etc is just bull.
the idea that you're going to stop corrupt governments is not only stupid (given that the country has more guns than you), but also keeping guns for that purpose would likely be an act of sedition.
sedition is a federal crime.
felons can't have guns.

you may want to revise the reason you want to keep guns, else it might just be possible for the corrupt government that you want to give yourself family and fellows from, can use their existing powers to stop you!



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Look at Sweden where every adult male between 20 and 30 is required to have a firearm as part of their required military service.
you mean Switzerland.



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Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
Well, thanks to CIA funded operations like this, we'll probably all lose our firearms. That's just going to make the mass chaos that will ensue that much easier for the red army to squash. We were given these rights because our founders saw the potential for corruption. That fear has come to fruition, and everyone in America is begging to be enslaved.

What we need is a common sense approach to the sale and distribution of firearms. Not mass lunacy and over-reaction.
them damned reds.

of course. as above.

If you;re talking about the red army as in reds under the bed style people inside your own country, well. they won't have guns either.
If you mean that your domestic government will turn commie and you want to use guns to fight it.
well, the only way that could happen would be through election, and to overthrow government, (or even plan to) is sedition, so your guns will be taken away anyway.
Also as pointed out above, the country has a metric shit load more guns and people than you. so whatever fight you did have would be unlikely to be a winning one.
and lastly if when you say red army you're talking of foreign invaders, well. aside from the fact that your own governments military (and every allied force's military) will be fighting that fight for you. your guns in your home won't make a difference against a well functioning military.



As for the better control argument?
are we suggesting that guns for target shooting at a club should be kept at a club? won't help.
The complete banning of handguns doesn't help, (as proven in the UK where a guy was shot last year by police whilst he was carrying an illegal firearm)
what about strict regulation as to who can own guns, and how guns should be stored?
again, as shown in the UK -Tony Martin bought shot guns, (controlled weapons) kept them under his bed (not locked in a safe cabinet) and he bought them specifically to "defend" his house. the guns weren't registered.

Basically, he'd been robbed repeatedly, and so he illegally bought a deadly weapon, stored it under his bed -a dangerous place to keep a gun and used it to shot a fleeing burglar in the back.

that would be illegal both in the UK and the US.

And after all that I think that we can probably all agree.
the historical reasons for keeping guns are no longer relevant.
the fat that they aren't relevant doesn't mean that you should give them up.
gun control is ineffective at stopping people getting killed.
gin control is ineffective at stopping people being killed with guns.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:11 AM   #66
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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Originally Posted by root View Post
And after all that I think that we can probably all agree.
the historical reasons for keeping guns are no longer relevant.
the fat that they aren't relevant doesn't mean that you should give them up.
gun control is ineffective at stopping people getting killed.
gin control is ineffective at stopping people being killed with guns.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying except the last couple of statements.

Whilst gun control or making it illegal for people to own guns will go nowhere close to eliminating deaths by guns I believe it will reduce the number.

Surely you (not directly you) but someone on here or I'd like to think any American citizen that owns a gun would give up his gun in an instant if that was directly related to saving the life of even in a single child?

This is essentially the question being posed.
Yes I accept making guns illegal to own will most likely only go a very very small way to cutting down the number of deaths by guns but surely even if that number is the equivalent to saving just a couple of peoples lives (I believe it will be far greater than a couple) but surely it would be worth it would it not?
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:39 AM   #67
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Default Re: Another school shooting

I think it's crazy that a substitue teacher, who lived in a "safe" community, felt the need to own 4 guns. And why weren't they locked up or if they were how did the kid get them? (i really don't know the whole story)

I think there should definately be some laws on how many guns and what kind you are allowed to have.

Even if she felt the need to own a gun for protection, does she really need 4?
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:45 AM   #68
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Default Re: Another school shooting

agree.

Didn't he use an assault rifle?
there is a reason it's called an assault rifle. they are much more dangerous then a pistol especially in a mass murders hands.
it will be hard to remove all guns in the US, but i think if they could make a law that says that a pistol is the only kind of weapon you can have in your home (and ONLY in the home) for self protection, would do wonders.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:47 AM   #69
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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Originally Posted by ssc456 View Post
You'd think the capital letters would have been enough to draw your attention to the fact that I said LESS LIKELY TO KILL PEOPLE.

Also why is making it illegal to own a gun "punishing law abiding citizens"?
I fail to see this as a punishment?

What happens when you are told you are not allowed to own a gun? You break down in tears? Feel like a family member has been lost? What? What is so great of a punishment that it is not worth giving up your right to own a gun to save the lives of thousands?
I have owned guns responsibly for 40 years, why should I have them taken off me because some nutter who should not have had access to guns killed innocent people.... why should I be penalized for that.
BTW my guns are locked away as mandated by our laws.
Lets ban cars as they kill more people than any thing else, lets ban booze because people can get violent. lets ban other things because it is good to ban.

Get real and as I said LOOK AT THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM.

Over hear in Australia we use to have a lot of institutions that use to treat people for mental problems...guess what not any more, most were shut down and most people treated as out patients from hospitals... they only get treated for a short time then let out in the public with no real help for the sake of saving money for the Government budgets.....
The almighty dollar rules in this world and lots of governments are shirking their responsibilities to their citizens.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:59 AM   #70
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Default Re: Another school shooting

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I have owned guns responsibly for 40 years, why should I have them taken off me because some nutter who should not have had access to guns killed innocent people.... why should I be penalized for that.
You shouldn't. But how many times do the actions of a few directly influence the lives of many...alot. And this needs to be one of those times.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/w...-politics.html
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West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin, another "A"-rated member of the NRA, on Monday questioned the availability of assault weapons, saying on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," "I don't know anyone in the sporting or hunting arena that goes out with an assault rifle. I don't know anybody that needs 30 rounds in a clip to go hunting. I mean, these are things that need to be talked about."
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