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Old 12-20-2012, 08:49 PM   #91
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Default Re: Another school shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by superman22x View Post
First thing. Automatic assault rifles are not available to anyone. They are illegal in the United States. It's possible to modify rifles to make them automatic. That is illegal though.

His other points about getting guns easily at trade shows needs to change, I do agree with that.

His idea of banning guns comparing to seat belts is goofy. The guns don't disappear... Criminals will EASILY get them. The idea is to keep the guns in the hands of the innocent for defense against the criminals.

He noted that 6 of the 10 worst shootings happened in recent years. He must have missed that they all happened in areas where weapons of any type are banned. Someone must have forgotten to tell the shooter that weapons were banned though, otherwise, surely he would have left his guns at the entrance.

That video is quite honestly a perfect example of the ignorance of people that insist on gun control.

I can almost guarantee that it will not happen for other reasons though. Money. There is WAY too much money in the weapons industry for them to be banned in America. Money talks.

I do agree that guns are dangerous and made for killing.
Cars are made for getting to and from places. However, people like me use them purely for enjoyment: racing. Guns can be used in the same way, target shooting at a range. I have only ever shot a gun at a target range. The first gun I shot was an AR-15. It was fun. I've never even wanted to go hunting however. Guns can be owned purely for target shooting. And many people use them for just that.

The funny thing is, every time Obama and guns come up, prices double. If Obama keeps up this talk, gun and ammunition manufacturer's profits will be so high, there will be even less of a chance of a ban, lol. The day after Obama's reelection, every store in my town was sold out of ammunition. And I live in the UP, the only thing sold more than Ammunition is Pasty's. They were well stocked, especially since it was close to opening weekend. Which is practically a bigger holiday than Christmas, New Years, and Thanksgiving combined up here.

People say the same things about sports cars (unnecessary).

http://www.facebook.com/BanTheFordMustang?group_id=0
The idea of public owning military automatic weapons and concealed handguns should be outlawed.
It has been mentioned here on this forum people prepared to pull out a gun to protect themselves at the slightest intimidation against them, how sad you live in a violent society having to resort to this behavior.
You do have a Police Force to deal with criminals
This is how the rest of the world views America, a gun happy culture plagued with shootings.
Your government has to deal with this problem and set an agenda to keep every one happy and bring down the number of firearm deaths and you the public should embrace changes that is fair for all to accept.

No one is advocating total disarmament of the population, certain categories of weapons should not be in the hands of civilians as there is no legitimate purpose.
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:51 PM   #92
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Default Re: Another school shooting

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns...
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:58 PM   #93
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Default Re: Another school shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM
the idea of public owning military automatic weapons and concealed handguns should be outlawed.
The general public cannot own fully auto weapons. All of these "assult" weapons are nothing more than semi-auto rifles that look scary. The few civilians that do have fully-auto weapons need to go through a long, tedious and expensive process to obtain a federal firearms license just to be able to own a fully auto weapon.

Point to any mass shooting in America in the last 5 years where a fully auto weapon was used ignoring Ft. Hood as that was an Army doctor who obviously had access to military weapons as part of his job. The movie theater shooting, the school shooting both were semi-auto rifles.


What's wrong with carrying concealed? I can open carry in my state, is that any better? In the end, it's simply a much more effective form of pepper spray when it comes to defending yourself IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM
It has been mentioned here on this forum people prepared to pull out a gun to protect themselves at the slightest intimidation against them
I haven't seen "slightest intimidation". I've seen "threat" which is more than an intimidation. A threat is determined by 4 things, and I"m quoting my concleaded carry class here: Ability to dor harm at that time, Opportunity (they're close enough, or they actually have the weapon they say they'll use), Jeopardy or a reasonable person would be in fear for their safty or the safety of others (The persons demenor can a large factor) and Finally preclusion. The weapon must the last choice, that still keeps me relitivly safe. Realitive if subjective as I would abviously be putting myself in danger if I ran at a man with a knife who as attacking someone so I could use a gun if I had one.

Failure to meet all 4 of those results in me going to jail if I were to draw my gun because the threat is not real. Don't read into thing that are not there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM
You do have a Police Force to deal with criminals
When a cop weighs 2 pounds and can come with me where ever I go then that'll be a worth while statement. It took the police 2 minutes to arrive when my ex's new boyfriend was banging on my door threating to break it down while I was sitting on the other side with a 9mm on the door. The cops new I had a gun and with his threats the castle law would allow me to shoot the moment the door comes down. That's something that generates a very fast response from the cops. Now what if I was on the street being attacked by a man with a knife? After two minutes of waiting I'd be dead.

Until we have enough police to assign one cop for every citiizen simply saying "the police will be there to protect you" is simply not true. It's not the job of the police to defend the person, but to defend society as a whole.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:04 PM   #94
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Default Re: Another school shooting

My two cents:

We should not ban guns. We should ban assault riffles and anything auto period (from my understand not all autos are banned, I have seem some shows showing so and how they "need to keep them in America").

Why ban assault riffles? We can't have rockets or grenades can we? Come on... They are specifically designed to do nothing but kill, assault, destroy. Not hunt.

Why would a ban on guns not work? Because we now have the capability to print them.
3D Printed gun

Half 3D print half pistol parts


Removing guns from the law abiding will do nothing but make it so the only ones with guns are the law and outlaw.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:39 PM   #95
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Default Re: Another school shooting

For the most part people are rational and sane, to an extent. Some on the other hand have issues. And those are the ones you keep hearing about. It's heartbreaking the evil they do but it's a fact of life that in this day and times things like this happen. The taking of an innocent life, adult or child, is the act of a coward. I believe there is a special place in hell for them.
I'm 60. When I was growing up I lived in a household that had rules. Break one and I got my ass torn up. Nothing abusive but I sure had trouble navigating my tenderized buns in to a chair for a bit. I learned pretty quickly the way to keep my tail intact was to play by the rules. I like to thing my mom and dad, God rest their souls, did a good job of raising their only male child. I know right from wrong and yes I know there will be times when the line is blurred. But my beliefs keep me coming back to the straight and narrow. I guess that's what separates me from a lot of people.
As I see it the problem with young people today is not mental issues or drugs, but how they were raised. " Oh poor baby, it's ok. We'll take you to a psychiatrist and get you on some medications. " When as I see it they should have reached for a belt, gave them a couple of good whacks on the ass and send them to their room with no dinner. Then later go talk with their child.
This doesn't happen today. Parents who never should have had a child in the first place, find the child a burden and have them doped up or just ignore them. Then they wonder what went wrong when their child turns in to a mass murderer.
Go back to the old values. Get the government out of your parenting rights. Give the bleeding heart assholes, who's kids are really fucked up, the finger or a right cross when they stick their noses in your parenting business. I got my ass ripped up in the store a few times. Finally sunk in to behave in public.
Kids today need you to be there for them when they have problems. They need for you to listen to them. They need for you to talk with them.
Teach your children moral values. Just be there for them.
Maybe it will help or maybe it won't. But as a parent giving being a parent your all, hopefully it will make a difference.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:33 AM   #96
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Default Re: Another school shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by celegorm View Post
The general public cannot own fully auto weapons. All of these "assult" weapons are nothing more than semi-auto rifles that look scary. The few civilians that do have fully-auto weapons need to go through a long, tedious and expensive process to obtain a federal firearms license just to be able to own a fully auto weapon.

Point to any mass shooting in America in the last 5 years where a fully auto weapon was used ignoring Ft. Hood as that was an Army doctor who obviously had access to military weapons as part of his job. The movie theater shooting, the school shooting both were semi-auto rifles.


What's wrong with carrying concealed? I can open carry in my state, is that any better? In the end, it's simply a much more effective form of pepper spray when it comes to defending yourself IMO.
I haven't seen "slightest intimidation". I've seen "threat" which is more than an intimidation. A threat is determined by 4 things, and I"m quoting my concleaded carry class here: Ability to dor harm at that time, Opportunity (they're close enough, or they actually have the weapon they say they'll use), Jeopardy or a reasonable person would be in fear for their safty or the safety of others (The persons demenor can a large factor) and Finally preclusion. The weapon must the last choice, that still keeps me relitivly safe. Realitive if subjective as I would abviously be putting myself in danger if I ran at a man with a knife who as attacking someone so I could use a gun if I had one.

Failure to meet all 4 of those results in me going to jail if I were to draw my gun because the threat is not real. Don't read into thing that are not there.

When a cop weighs 2 pounds and can come with me where ever I go then that'll be a worth while statement. It took the police 2 minutes to arrive when my ex's new boyfriend was banging on my door threating to break it down while I was sitting on the other side with a 9mm on the door. The cops new I had a gun and with his threats the castle law would allow me to shoot the moment the door comes down. That's something that generates a very fast response from the cops. Now what if I was on the street being attacked by a man with a knife? After two minutes of waiting I'd be dead.

Until we have enough police to assign one cop for every citiizen simply saying "the police will be there to protect you" is simply not true. It's not the job of the police to defend the person, but to defend society as a whole.
I respect your views but would like to add this last comment.
In Australia and quite a few other countries we are not allowed to own hand guns for personal protection.
We do not have any high levels of homicide with hand guns in fact very low, hand guns are used by criminals against criminals or in robberies, very few cases used against the public.

Semi Autos & auto rifles/shotguns are banned over here except for the farmer or professional shooter for eradicating pest/vermin (strict controls)

We have a licencing system which has strict protocols for ownership and you must apply for a permit(30 days waiting period to be approved by police) to buy firearms with a valid reason for its purpose.

I do feel safe in my country and yes we do have some bad crime here with bashings/stabbings/ and the odd number of homicides but not to the level of living in fear or having to carry a weapon to protect myself.

I believe Gun ownership is privilege not a right.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:22 AM   #97
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Default Re: Another school shooting

It's shocking the amount of gun related problems in America.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:06 AM   #98
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Default Re: Another school shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by vampist View Post
My two cents:

We should not ban guns. We should ban assault riffles and anything auto period (from my understand not all autos are banned, I have seem some shows showing so and how they "need to keep them in America").

Why ban assault riffles? We can't have rockets or grenades can we? Come on... They are specifically designed to do nothing but kill, assault, destroy. Not hunt.

Why would a ban on guns not work? Because we now have the capability to print them.
3D Printed gun

Half 3D print half pistol parts


Removing guns from the law abiding will do nothing but make it so the only ones with guns are the law and outlaw.
that whole 3d printed gun stuff is mass hysteria media crap.

basically the design for a lower receiver was uploaded to the thingyverse.
(they've pulled it now anyway Reinforced AR-15 Lower Receiver by HaveBlue - Thingiverse)

the idea is that this is an essential part, (and in some cases the only serialized part that's recorded -all other parts can be bought unrestricted as spares).

the reason it's mass hysteria crap is, (as an owner of a 3d printer I can tell you) the quality and tolerance of parts leaves a lot to be desired. the plastic is brittle, each machine has it's little foibles, z axis wobbles, x and y hysteresis to worry about -which are practically unique to each machine. the way the heated bed of the machines work, how hot they are, the uniformity of the spread of the heat in the bed. the properties of materials used, (I've got three rollw of plastic from the same supplier, (3 colours) each behaves in different ways and needs tweaking, plastic from different suppliers behaves in different ways, and even when you buy a roll of plastic filament at a set diameter, that's actually only approximate and varies along the length of the roll which plays havoc with flow settings.

the time when people are going to mass produce even this one part for this weapon in some kind of 3d printing plastic actory is most certainly not upon us. and even if you point out that these problems are fused filament problems, Laser sintered and UV resin machines (and materials) have their own unique problems between machines and are much much more expensive.

The guy fired 200 rounds with his plastic gun, but how long will this actually be safe?

that said, I took metal work in school when I was 16, I'm pretty sure that with a £1000 Milling machine, a block of metal and some decent bits I could make the part much stronger and to a much better tolerance than a 3d printer could, - probably faster too!

This is not a new problem, you've been able to buy "half finished" guns from catalogues for a long time in the states.

which brings me to the next point.
the stock, lower receiver, firing pins, trigger mechanism, springs, grips, body etc can all be made (with very little skill) at home.
the one part that you don't want to mess about with is the barrel, not least because this needs to cope with the force of the explosion in the chamber, but also because it requires extensive and specialist machining, (also it's the part of the gun that gives a bullet it's "signature" -why oh why is this (the only part you can't reliably make at home) not the controlled part!!?
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