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Old 12-28-2011, 07:50 PM   #11
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Default Re: Thanks - Coming Soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet H View Post
Rep has been disabled but for some usergroups the actual data is gone so they have no scores. It's a bit of an uneven mess and so starting fresh with the thanks system seems like the best path forward - I also think it will be a good addition to the board.
I thought I heard it linger that it was deleted by the hackers..

Anyway, I'll let you guys get to it
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: Thanks - Coming Soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by berry120 View Post
Must admit that I'm the same on this. I don't really care in the sense that *my rep* has gone, but I don't think it's the best decision for the site overall. The thanks system is a good one and leaves a nice private message for people to pick up saying their post is good, but I don't really think this works as a complete replacement for a rep system.

My logic is thus, that the main thing rep was good for was for giving new members an instant idea of who they could trust. It was good for other things too, like giving you a warm fuzzy feeling inside, but that wasn't the main point of it. Anyone could come and see a big green bar which gave an instant visual notification to anyone that this was a respected member.

What we have now is a system that's flipped it on its head, and placed more importance on the warm fuzzy feeling than notifying newcomers about trusted members. They'll still look for a "trust measure", but that will likely be on post count like days of old. While rep isn't perfect, it's a much better measure of performance than post count ever was (anyone can post any old rubbish and get "rewarded"!)

I also think this can actively *discourage* new members from joining too - because many people who join forums to be active and helpful look for that challenge / reward scenario in which they can earn things like reputation to gain more respect. It's the type of thing that made StackOverflow so successful for instance. Without it then it just wouldn't be what it is today.

I'm not necessarily saying bring back the old reputation system, though I think it'd be better than the current proposal. It seems to me that the thought process has been something along the lines of "the old reputation system didn't work, so let's dump reputation entirely" rather than "the old reputation system didn't work, let's put our heads together and make it better". Yes, I know you might argue that the latter approach was taken and "thanks" was proposed as the answer, but it's something entirely different that doesn't address any of the issues rep tries to solve. I actually quite like the system if it ran alongside rep, just not instead of it. I don't see the fact rep has been partially lost as an issue at all, just dump everyone's rep scores (well, back them up first just in case!) and start over. New era, new rep scores.

In terms of competing to try and get the highest rep score - that (for the site, if done fairly) is a good thing! If people are competing for more and more rep on public display it means that they're competing to write more thoughtful, helpful posts and answers to questions. More people competing in this way drives the overall quality up = healthy competition.
I agree with everything you say in this post. Personally I think a rep system where rep can only be given from the help sections is the best. I don't see any real use of the thanks system personally through experience with it on other forums i am on..I know I take no notice of it.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: Thanks - Coming Soon

One other thing I'd add - I came to the site well after rep was established and well after many members had "full bars", and (to start with, without even realisi ng it was there) climbed up there with the others as well. So I wouldn't say it's unfair for new members trying to reach the high numbers either, if you put the quality of posts in it's pretty easy.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Thanks - Coming Soon

I was always for a multifaceted reputation system. Instead of "This post gets positive/negative rep", why not "This posts positive/negative... [type of rep]". When the Thanks system was first suggested, I was all for bringing the old system back and just adding the Thanks system to it. Why not, however, have a more in depth reputation system. Example?

Well first, why is reputation typically given? In my experience, I've gotten rep for answering questions, making a witty remark, or a well written counter argument. I'm sure that members more senior than I would have different scenarios as well.
So why not split the rep into sections or types? I've never seen a complex reputation system so it's not really on the major forums... giving us a unique feature comparatively.

Basically, you have different reputation scores, the first and most obvious would be a technical ability score. You can only get this in the support forums for answering or solving problems.
Next would be some type of joker score. A lot of the threads in the social lounge are casual, joking threads (RCC/LMAO threads/various threads). While I don't think someone should get reputation at another's expense, I've been pwned before and thought it was absolutely hilarious. If it gets out of hand, that's where the staff could re-evaluate the system or provide a better definition on how to attain a higher score in this category. Serious discussions would not be allowed to be playing fields for this type of post/rep.
Next would be a type of wisdom score. We have some pretty intelligent members on our site with the ability to clearly articulate a point with supporting arguments/evidence. Why not reward or display that type of ability as well?

These were 'on the fly' ideas but they're only ideas to convey the general workings of such a system.

I agree whole heatedly with Berry regarding the implementation and use of rep... it's a badge of honor for a lot of users, a sign of a trustworthy answer, an incentive to continue to post and help users through their issues. I also feel that if we added different categories, it adds a level of personality to our online identity in the community.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:30 AM   #15
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Default Re: Thanks - Coming Soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by berry120 View Post
Must admit that I'm the same on this. I don't really care in the sense that *my rep* has gone, but I don't think it's the best decision for the site overall. The thanks system is a good one and leaves a nice private message for people to pick up saying their post is good, but I don't really think this works as a complete replacement for a rep system.

My logic is thus, that the main thing rep was good for was for giving new members an instant idea of who they could trust. It was good for other things too, like giving you a warm fuzzy feeling inside, but that wasn't the main point of it. Anyone could come and see a big green bar which gave an instant visual notification to anyone that this was a respected member.

What we have now is a system that's flipped it on its head, and placed more importance on the warm fuzzy feeling than notifying newcomers about trusted members. They'll still look for a "trust measure", but that will likely be on post count like days of old. While rep isn't perfect, it's a much better measure of performance than post count ever was (anyone can post any old rubbish and get "rewarded"!)

I also think this can actively *discourage* new members from joining too - because many people who join forums to be active and helpful look for that challenge / reward scenario in which they can earn things like reputation to gain more respect. It's the type of thing that made StackOverflow so successful for instance. Without it then it just wouldn't be what it is today.

I'm not necessarily saying bring back the old reputation system, though I think it'd be better than the current proposal. It seems to me that the thought process has been something along the lines of "the old reputation system didn't work, so let's dump reputation entirely" rather than "the old reputation system didn't work, let's put our heads together and make it better". Yes, I know you might argue that the latter approach was taken and "thanks" was proposed as the answer, but it's something entirely different that doesn't address any of the issues rep tries to solve. I actually quite like the system if it ran alongside rep, just not instead of it. I don't see the fact rep has been partially lost as an issue at all, just dump everyone's rep scores (well, back them up first just in case!) and start over. New era, new rep scores.

In terms of competing to try and get the highest rep score - that (for the site, if done fairly) is a good thing! If people are competing for more and more rep on public display it means that they're competing to write more thoughtful, helpful posts and answers to questions. More people competing in this way drives the overall quality up = healthy competition.
what he said.

the thanks system must be public, then it's show what that person had been doing to help the community.

if members want to say thank you to a person privately then the private message system should be used.
if a person believes that another person has posted something insightful that sets them apart from someone else, then they should get an accolade of sorts (either rep or thanks), I also think that unlike the old rep system that these thanks should actually be entirely public. score and the message.

that would let members decide who to trust.
if for example I gather all my rep making jokes in the software forum, helping people remove spy ware, I may have a rep/thanks score of 100, on the other hand, Berry spend a lot of time helping people in the programming forums, as less people post there his rep may only be 50.

if I decide to venture into the programming forum then it would be helpful to members to see that all my positive score has been garnered removing spyware, not answering questions about programming, and therefore, even though my score is higher, they might want to trust what berry says more.

I also think that no scores at all should be awarded in the social lounge, thank you messages (even public ones) should be able to be sent with the same system, but no positive score should be associated with those scores.
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: Thanks - Coming Soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
I was always for a multifaceted reputation system. Instead of "This post gets positive/negative rep", why not "This posts positive/negative... [type of rep]". When the Thanks system was first suggested, I was all for bringing the old system back and just adding the Thanks system to it. Why not, however, have a more in depth reputation system. Example?

Well first, why is reputation typically given? In my experience, I've gotten rep for answering questions, making a witty remark, or a well written counter argument. I'm sure that members more senior than I would have different scenarios as well.
So why not split the rep into sections or types? I've never seen a complex reputation system so it's not really on the major forums... giving us a unique feature comparatively.

Basically, you have different reputation scores, the first and most obvious would be a technical ability score. You can only get this in the support forums for answering or solving problems.
Next would be some type of joker score. A lot of the threads in the social lounge are casual, joking threads (RCC/LMAO threads/various threads). While I don't think someone should get reputation at another's expense, I've been pwned before and thought it was absolutely hilarious. If it gets out of hand, that's where the staff could re-evaluate the system or provide a better definition on how to attain a higher score in this category. Serious discussions would not be allowed to be playing fields for this type of post/rep.
Next would be a type of wisdom score. We have some pretty intelligent members on our site with the ability to clearly articulate a point with supporting arguments/evidence. Why not reward or display that type of ability as well?

These were 'on the fly' ideas but they're only ideas to convey the general workings of such a system.

I agree whole heatedly with Berry regarding the implementation and use of rep... it's a badge of honor for a lot of users, a sign of a trustworthy answer, an incentive to continue to post and help users through their issues. I also feel that if we added different categories, it adds a level of personality to our online identity in the community.
I agree with the different rep scores. If they could all be lined up with the bars to make a little graph, it would be very easy to just look at someone and say "OK, this person is experienced with this subject" so you know to trust them, but if someone posted with a low rep score in that area, they might not be as trustworthy.

Although the thanks button on the posts is also an interesting idea. But, kind of going off this idea, would it be possible to add a "Solution" button to mark a certain post as solved? Some forums have this (and it changes the background of the post to a different color) so it's easy to search for a question and instantly get the answer without reading through a bunch of posts.
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Thanks - Coming Soon

Quote:
Although the thanks button on the posts is also an interesting idea. But, kind of going off this idea, would it be possible to add a "Solution" button to mark a certain post as solved? Some forums have this (and it changes the background of the post to a different color) so it's easy to search for a question and instantly get the answer without reading through a bunch of posts.
This works great for sites that have purely question and answer style posts (see StackOverflow) but is less useful when we have discussion type threads like here. Even threads in the various sections like programming, hardware software etc. are often more geared towards discussion rather than a set answer, and if you start marking threads as solved then it makes all the discussion threads that can't be solved look messy and unwanted (because they can't have that nice green tick by them!)
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: Thanks - Coming Soon

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Originally Posted by berry120 View Post
This works great for sites that have purely question and answer style posts (see StackOverflow) but is less useful when we have discussion type threads like here. Even threads in the various sections like programming, hardware software etc. are often more geared towards discussion rather than a set answer, and if you start marking threads as solved then it makes all the discussion threads that can't be solved look messy and unwanted (because they can't have that nice green tick by them!)
Good point. But I definitely think there should be some kind of system to show who is more trustworthy than others.
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: Thanks - Coming Soon

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Good point. But I definitely think there should be some kind of system to show who is more trustworthy than others.
Oh definitely, hence my earlier post - that's why I think we need at least some kind of public reputation system!
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: Thanks - Coming Soon

Don't suppose there's any update from the site team as to what's happening / being considered? Is the original proposal still going ahead as planned or is something different happening now?

I'm just curious
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