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Old 10-24-2011, 11:51 AM   #1
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Default please dont lock threads!

locking threads is locking information and preventing progress. background: while googling a question or a topic i go first to the top results and many times the threads i visit either dont have an answer, have an outdated or incorrect answer and are locked, thus preventing anyone from providing an answer, updating an answer or giving a correct answer, all the while the thread being visited by thousands of people wasting hundreds of hours going to these dead links.
this is a very pervasive problem that waste a lot of valuable time from people either just having a past time or serious scientists looking for information for maybe a bedrock discovery. so i urge the administrators in the spirit of progress to not lock threads.
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: please dont lock threads!

As i've said before and I'll say again, you're making a big deal of nothing. If the thread that started all of this (http://www.computerforums.org/hardwa...ice-64491.html) really was that important it wouldn't have been laying dead for almost 4 years. Particularly when you only bumped it up to say that you were not happy with the results that the OP got and not to add information that could have helped him.

Either way, I don't see the point. That thread doesn't even get on the Google results until page three, which most people never even get to.

Also like I've mentioned to you more than once, if you want to create a new post on that topic there is nothing stopping you.
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: please dont lock threads!

this isnt about that thread but about the number of times i go to a dead thread looking for an answer thats not there or looking for a topic and trying to give an answer and thread is locked. u dont understand how important a tiny bit of information can be for research. should read about chaos theory.
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Old 10-25-2011, 03:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: please dont lock threads!

If a thread is untouched for months at a time, and you need an answer - ask in a new thread. It keeps responses fresh and information useful. A thread from years ago is unlikely to still be accurate and relevant for today; especially since the technology industry moves so fast.

between 2007 and now, the iPhone has become the iPhone 4S; for example
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: please dont lock threads!

to be honest, I agree with the OP here to a certain extent.

there are a LOT of forums where questions are asked but never answered, and that's annoying. -it's worse on the Microsoft/technet forums where questions are asked, and answered so obviously incorrectly by moderator staff who then mark their own incorrect answers as the "accepted answer"...

And I really HATE with a passion ever having to seach for an answer to a problem and finding these places.

but, we have no acepted answer feature here, so you'll need to read/try understand any advice given to see if it's appropriate. there is no points system awarded for correct/incorrect answers, and the rep system speaks very little of knowledge.

and secondly, if you have an issue, even if the symptoms are the same it's often better to start your own thread.

Say that there are a number of people who can't log in to their PC in the morning, for the first person the problem might be that their account is locked, the second might not know their password, the third might have a bad domain controller that doesn't service logons, the fourth might have their system clock so wrong that kerberos tickets can't work properly, the fifth might be selecting the wrong domain to logon, the sixth might not have plugged their machine in, the seventh might have network connectivity issues, the eighth might...

You see where I'm going with this, sometimes the same symptoms do not equate to the same problems. so really if you have a problem, even if it sounds exactly the same as another persons problem it sometimes really is better to start your own thread.

you should feel free to link to an old post saying that you've read that and have tried some advice from it, or perhaps don't understand the solution, or that it doesn't work for you... crucuially, if it doesn't work for you, then there is a good chance that whilst the symptoms are the same your problem might be different.

but you get better advice from starting your own thread.
if you start your own thread then people trying to help won't be confused by what has been said before
you won't be hijacking someone else thread and adding your own symptoms (that might not even be relevant to their problem.)

The long and the short of it is start your own thread, don't hijack others, and don't bring threads back from the dead.
That's the rules, -which you agreed to when you signed up here!

and some good reasons for those rules (if not obvious) are explained above...


sadly, when people don't follow the rules and re-post in an old thread, the easiest remedy is to just lock the thread.
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: please dont lock threads!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Darkseeker~ View Post
If a thread is untouched for months at a time, and you need an answer - ask in a new thread. It keeps responses fresh and information useful. A thread from years ago is unlikely to still be accurate and relevant for today; especially since the technology industry moves so fast.

between 2007 and now, the iPhone has become the iPhone 4S; for example
ok, i see some problems visualizing possible scenarios. example of problem locking a thread: question in a forum from 5 years ago, who is microsoft ceo? answer for that time: bill gates. thread locked and people unable to update answer. another example, where can i go with my friend to buy electronics? answer: circuit city. thread locked. i mean come on. locking threads is like putting a lock on the free flow of information.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:26 AM   #7
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Default Re: please dont lock threads!

Whilst I see where you're coming from it still doesn't make the case any better, or more valid.

in fact it has the opposite affect.

Point 1, who is the CEO of... you should be finding a better resource than a forum. the fact that the thread is locked means nothing.
point 2, where is the best place to buy electronics.... the answer is valid for that case and that time and is only opinion based anyway, in fact the first part of that is true for both questions.

the answer is only valid at that time.

when a thread is old it gets buried in the forum, that means it goes deeper into the site and is harder to search for, if you post in an old thread you actually bring now inaccurate information for the fore where it is more likely to be found by search spiders, so in fact by posting in outdated threads you make the situation worse search engines are now more likely to point to inaccurate information.

In anycase all posts have a time and date attached to them, when asking a question that is, or can only be valid for a given period of time the date of the post is just as important as other parts of the post. such as who is CEO of MS?, in 2005 that Was Bill Gates. and anyone answering that question would quite rightly say Bill Gates (then)

if you wanted to know the same information now, and were too lazy to find a good source you should ask the question again.

now in October 2011 the CEO is Steve Balmer.

if that changes next year it doesn't make the fact that I wrote above any less valid (SB is CEO of MS), simply because the information can change.

It doesn't make the information inaccurate either, it's an undisputer fact that Steve Balmer is the CEO of Microsoft, I can say that because it's true, and that fact will indeed alwas be a fact because secondary information included is the date and time that I posted the information.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: please dont lock threads!

Quote:
Originally Posted by root View Post
to be honest, I agree with the OP here to a certain extent.

there are a LOT of forums where questions are asked but never answered, and that's annoying. -it's worse on the Microsoft/technet forums where questions are asked, and answered so obviously incorrectly by moderator staff who then mark their own incorrect answers as the "accepted answer"...

And I really HATE with a passion ever having to seach for an answer to a problem and finding these places.

but, we have no acepted answer feature here, so you'll need to read/try understand any advice given to see if it's appropriate. there is no points system awarded for correct/incorrect answers, and the rep system speaks very little of knowledge.

and secondly, if you have an issue, even if the symptoms are the same it's often better to start your own thread.

Say that there are a number of people who can't log in to their PC in the morning, for the first person the problem might be that their account is locked, the second might not know their password, the third might have a bad domain controller that doesn't service logons, the fourth might have their system clock so wrong that kerberos tickets can't work properly, the fifth might be selecting the wrong domain to logon, the sixth might not have plugged their machine in, the seventh might have network connectivity issues, the eighth might...

You see where I'm going with this, sometimes the same symptoms do not equate to the same problems. so really if you have a problem, even if it sounds exactly the same as another persons problem it sometimes really is better to start your own thread.

you should feel free to link to an old post saying that you've read that and have tried some advice from it, or perhaps don't understand the solution, or that it doesn't work for you... crucuially, if it doesn't work for you, then there is a good chance that whilst the symptoms are the same your problem might be different.

but you get better advice from starting your own thread.
if you start your own thread then people trying to help won't be confused by what has been said before
you won't be hijacking someone else thread and adding your own symptoms (that might not even be relevant to their problem.)

The long and the short of it is start your own thread, don't hijack others, and don't bring threads back from the dead.
That's the rules, -which you agreed to when you signed up here!

and some good reasons for those rules (if not obvious) are explained above...


sadly, when people don't follow the rules and re-post in an old thread, the easiest remedy is to just lock the thread.
1. i agree with you that people shouldnt hijack threads.
2. people shouldnt have to open a new thread that is just a duplicate just because the other thread is locked. i think that if someone has exactly the same question with same details in a thread, its a. a waste of time to open a duplicate thread, b. it adds a problem by creating multiple duplicate threads, with many times only one out of many containing an answer, c. waste of time for people to keep going to dead, locked threads without an accurate or updated answer and unable to contribute an answer or to the discussion.
3.rules? lack of flexibility is one of the top causes of business failures and certainly lack of flexibility and reasonability doesnt contribute to progress either, as progress is constantly evolving by nature. and it doesnt help either to stick to a rule out of pride rather than necessisty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by root View Post
Whilst I see where you're coming from it still doesn't make the case any better, or more valid.

in fact it has the opposite affect.

Point 1, who is the CEO of... you should be finding a better resource than a forum. the fact that the thread is locked means nothing.
point 2, where is the best place to buy electronics.... the answer is valid for that case and that time and is only opinion based anyway, in fact the first part of that is true for both questions.

the answer is only valid at that time.

when a thread is old it gets buried in the forum, that means it goes deeper into the site and is harder to search for, if you post in an old thread you actually bring now inaccurate information for the fore where it is more likely to be found by search spiders, so in fact by posting in outdated threads you make the situation worse search engines are now more likely to point to inaccurate information.

In anycase all posts have a time and date attached to them, when asking a question that is, or can only be valid for a given period of time the date of the post is just as important as other parts of the post. such as who is CEO of MS?, in 2005 that Was Bill Gates. and anyone answering that question would quite rightly say Bill Gates (then)

if you wanted to know the same information now, and were too lazy to find a good source you should ask the question again.

now in October 2011 the CEO is Steve Balmer.

if that changes next year it doesn't make the fact that I wrote above any less valid (SB is CEO of MS), simply because the information can change.

It doesn't make the information inaccurate either, it's an undisputer fact that Steve Balmer is the CEO of Microsoft, I can say that because it's true, and that fact will indeed alwas be a fact because secondary information included is the date and time that I posted the information.
point 1, you seem to be unaware that google exist. many people that ended up looking information on a forum is because they followed a link after googling a question or a topic.
point 2, the answer is valid at that time, but someone might have the same exact question in the future so that answer is not valid after circuit city block stores went out of business. point is people looking for an answer shouldnt have to go visit 3, 4 10 links for the same question, specially after many of those links are old locked threads that will keep popping up on search results and unable to be updated.
search spiders look for meta tags and match words, not length of inactivity. so a 4 year old post will pop up in a search result if it matches the words in the search engine submission. so if an old thread comes up in search results it should have an updated answer in order to be useful, because it will keep popping up, not matter if its locked, not locked or inactive.
lazyness has nothing to do here and its completely irrelevant to the case, as is illogical and counterintuitive. its a matter of efficiently using time. why would anyone have to spend 10 minutes looking for information when they could do it in one minute. if someone needs to expand on the subject then they need to spend the time that need to be. but if someone is looking for a quick answer, they need a quick answer.
a thread with a question asked in the year 2005 may have an answer for that year but also should be able to be updated at any time and not sit locked being just a stumble in the search for the current information for the year that might be.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: please dont lock threads!

Quote:
point 1, you seem to be unaware that google exist. many people that ended up looking information on a forum is because they followed a link after googling a question or a topic.
indeed

Google

top results are wikipedia (Steve balmers page) then bill gates wikipedia page, then the official microsoft website.

I'm aware that google exists. the message here is that we're not going to change the forum rules just because you can't use google effectivly.


Quote:
people shouldnt have to open a new thread that is just a duplicate just because the other thread is locked
so you don't think that threads should be hijacked unless it's you doing the hijacking because your problem sounds simillar?

as I said to you in the last reply, often the symptoms of a problem may be the same yet the solution may be different,
if you've read solutions else where and found that they didn't work then you should put the things that you've already tried in your starting post. if you're not able to form a good post asking for help properly then try looking at this KB article: Suggestions for asking a question on help forums

but to make it clear, if you can't ask for help describing your problem accuratly enough, that's your problem, not a reason to change the rules.

Quote:
, the answer is valid at that time, but someone might have the same exact question in the future so that answer is not valid after circuit city block stores went out of business. point is people looking for an answer shouldnt have to go visit 3, 4 10 links for the same question, specially after many of those links are old locked threads that will keep popping up on search results and unable to be updated.
no they shouldn't have to search any links at all. it's be better if they signed up to ask the question AT THIS TIME. you seem to be aware of the fact that information can change. so if you wanted to know something current why would you be trying to dig up posts from years ago? surely you'd just ask for recomendation of the here and now, in the here and now?

Quote:
search spiders look for meta tags and match words, not length of inactivity. so a 4 year old post will pop up in a search result if it matches the words in the search engine submission
spiders also usually have link depth weighting.

So for example, your thread is the last answered thread right now, if a search spider hits computerforums.org it'll be able to link to your thread from the first page. this is good, the thread has promenance.
when someone replies to a different thread in this section it'll disappear from the first page. the spider will have to go into the suggestions category and then sepect the link.

After a while it'll get buried on page 2, then the path that the spider has to follow is main page > sub forum > page reference > article
the article is harder to find. the harder an article is to find the less search engine love it recieves.

So if you post on an old thread you bring it from the depths back to being featured on the main page, where it's easier to find and is thus ranked more highly...

The spider isn't concerned with inactivity, there's a good chance it doesn't even recognise the date as a date, the spider will be concerned about link depth however. by necro posting you give threads underserved attention because you reduce that link depth.


I'm really not sure what you want here?
you've turned up, told members that their replies weren't good enough (after the original poster already said he was happy with the solution and left). you've then gone out of your way to argue with everyone that the rules should be changed to suit you. nobody else has a problem with the rules.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: please dont lock threads!

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo78 View Post
point 2, the answer is valid at that time, but someone might have the same exact question in the future so that answer is not valid after circuit city block stores went out of business. point is people looking for an answer shouldnt have to go visit 3, 4 10 links for the same question, specially after many of those links are old locked threads that will keep popping up on search results and unable to be updated.
I was going to remain out of this once root started posting since he tends to word things much better than I can, but I can't help but post a counter point here. I have a Linksys E2000 router that I wanted to update to DD-WRT firmware. The walkthrough at the time pointed to this thread: DD-WRT Forum :: View topic - Linksys E2000 / E3000 test builds here. Read through it once and tell me what I need to do flash my router. I'll save you time and tell you that you won't be able to because of all the release announcements, questions and problems who's only relation to the initial post is the router's model. to quote the moderator on their end who eventually closed the thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by murrkf
Locking this thread. It has become fridge mold. It was initially to announce the availability of the e3000 e2000 but has morphed into a mess of anything and everything e2-3k. Most of the info here is or should be in the wiki for these routers and/or the announcements at the start of the broadcom forum. People are repeating the smae questions repeatedly as noone is going to go through a 75+page thread. Time to kiss this one good bye.

For those stumbling onto it, read the last few pages, the wiki and the broadcom forum announcements. IF they don't address your particular question, create a NEW post in the forum.
That's the problem we are hoping to prevent. As he said, if what is currently on the post isn't enough to answer your question make a new thread. It's not a foreign concept in the internet, it's more common practice than you think.
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