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Old 11-08-2012, 05:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: A new forum

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Originally Posted by celegorm View Post
to do this point by point:

1) Nothing will ever make more people post after signing up. The SL is more popular because that's where our normal members who don't have any questions post. Even if we did everything perfectly in such a way that 100% of the people who visited the forum loved, people still wouldn't post. Mostly because they have nothing to say, but want to be able to should something come up. We've had a selection of people over the years who used to be "lurkers" to start posting and it happened on their own terms.

2) I would agonize over that as well. Usually there a catch, like "if you don't cancel in x amount of days we'll just charge your credit card or continue to send you stuff and eventually a bill". What we have here is a free service where making a wrong choice does not cost the user anything or send them a bill.

3) Again, we'll never get everyone to post. To add to my previous point, some of those being counted by the "people viewing" stat is bots so it will never be 100%. And honestly I rarely move posts. Back when we had the "articles" section on the top who's description stated it was computer articles we had a lot of people who ignored the description and posted there with questions. Now with that being relocated I'm unlucky if I have to move one post every other week.
On your first and last points, of course you'll never get everybody to post nor force them to post. It's far easier to get somebody to not post (nor buy) than it is to get your prospect to do the opposite.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: A new forum

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On your first and last points, of course you'll never get everybody to post nor force them to post. It's far easier to get somebody to not post (nor buy) than it is to get your prospect to do the opposite.
Then why were your points about getting people to post? I think the larger issue is keeping people after their first question is answered.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: A new forum

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Then why were your points about getting people to post? I think the larger issue is keeping people after their first question is answered.
What I'm saying is what's holdind back people from posting just like I had to ask myself what holds people back from buying or what holds people back from learning (in education)?
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:20 AM   #14
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Default Re: A new forum

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Let's do this, paragraph by paragraph:

1) I would think that most new members would expect to post in the right forum. But more important are the ones who don't post.

2) In sales, I used to give newspapers away (no money involved, no catches). Even here, people "agonized" over taking a two-month free trial. I'll be awaiting your next argument on this.

3) Again the most important thing are the ones who don't post. And wouldn't it be nice to the moderators if they didn't have to move threads around?
1)most new members would probably just post in hardware if its a hardware discussion , software if its a software discussion, Honestly I dont see anything wrong with threads about software discussion either in hardware or in the social lounge it doesn't make that much difference and with all due respect to the owners of this site I dont think we are busy enough for this to be all that much an issue ,
2) Have you ever considered the proposition that perhaps people have been sceptical about the newspapers being free , or what happens after the free trial expires
3) Like you said I completely agree we will never know how many people this encourages to post however I dont agree that we will only know when we implement it . Say it is implemented the week before a major software or hardware release the website might be a bit busier , without asking people it would be impossible to attribute any increase in posters directly to this . Secondly it is pretty rare that a mod has to move a new thread and i really dont think they mind moving a thread every once in a while

TBH based on the fact that the sites management have yet to comment and it really isn't a new groundbreaking idea that is going to attract a 500% increase in regular members I would say this idea is pretty much dead in the water .
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: A new forum

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1)most new members would probably just post in hardware if its a hardware discussion , software if its a software discussion, Honestly I dont see anything wrong with threads about software discussion either in hardware or in the social lounge it doesn't make that much difference and with all due respect to the owners of this site I dont think we are busy enough for this to be all that much an issue ,
2) Have you ever considered the proposition that perhaps people have been sceptical about the newspapers being free , or what happens after the free trial expires
3) Like you said I completely agree we will never know how many people this encourages to post however I dont agree that we will only know when we implement it . Say it is implemented the week before a major software or hardware release the website might be a bit busier , without asking people it would be impossible to attribute any increase in posters directly to this . Secondly it is pretty rare that a mod has to move a new thread and i really dont think they mind moving a thread every once in a while

TBH based on the fact that the sites management have yet to comment and it really isn't a new groundbreaking idea that is going to attract a 500% increase in regular members I would say this idea is pretty much dead in the water .

In regards to your second point (your inquiry), my response is "of course." The Star Ledger in their scripts made a point of letting the prospects know that the two-month trial automatically stops and would need to let the deliverer or office know if they wish to continue (I should say that the Star-Ledger paid me both a salary and a commission to do this; I also did free cable service which is another story).

On your third point, the only way to find out what the actual numbers are is to follow my suggestion. In the beginning, when I wasn't experienced, I really was struggling in sales where I was about 80% in sales expectations, then an event happened that set me on the
right road to selling so after that event, things I've tried frequently exceeded my own expectations so if you regard quotas as a measure of sales performance, then I'd say my best efforts along that line was when I worked for the cable company. With other events that can affect the numbers, just by running the change long enough, say for three months, should give you enough data for the big picture. Also I'm not concerned with moving threads around (although some mods might be). I'm focused on getting more posting done.

I'm in agreement with you that the idea won't generate a 500% increase in posting, let alone a 100% increase. However I wouldn't be surprised if the increase is in the area of 25% - 50%.

I already knew that Celegorm wasn't hot for the idea the first time he posted on this thread. But that doesn't preclude him from changing his mind later on. If he has any further questions, I'll be around to answer.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: A new forum

OK gentlemen can we not do the personal attacks here?

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I already knew that Celegorm wasn't hot for the idea the first time he posted on this thread. But that doesn't preclude him from changing his mind later on. If he has any further questions, I'll be around to answer.
Lol no i wasn't hot for the idea: I'm still not because I dont' see the logic in how it will help. However in the end even if I did like it it's not within my power to change. The best any of our back and forth might do is help the admins make a better decision on if they agree with you or not. So assuming the Admin's agree with you our debates only help your case. If not: well civil debates are always fun
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:03 AM   #17
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Default Re: A new forum

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OK gentlemen can we not do the personal attacks here?



Lol no i wasn't hot for the idea: I'm still not because I dont' see the logic in how it will help. However in the end even if I did like it it's not within my power to change. The best any of our back and forth might do is help the admins make a better decision on if they agree with you or not. So assuming the Admin's agree with you our debates only help your case. If not: well civil debates are always fun
Personal attacks!? Not on this thread. We're all one happy family here.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: A new forum

IMHO, creating another forum is not going to drive posts or discussion.

Let's continue this 'sales' theme as it's something I've specialized for many years in my career.
A car salesman can only sell 100 cars per month. He cannot expand his lot nor can he build a secondary location. He is confined to the lot he already owns. There is no shortage of variety in the kinds of car he sells. His lot is already divided into sections depending on the model of the car. He also has a small section laid out for various other motorized vehicles. This mainly consists of ATV's, motorcycles, boats and golf carts.

Without being able to buy a new lot or a larger lot, there's not much he can do to drive sales when relating to the organization of the lot. I liken the above conversation into the car salesman making a different section for motorcycles because they only have two wheels, and keeping the rest in the previous section. What about the boat though? Should it get its own section now because it is a prop engine?

A few points here.

1. Dividing his lot does nothing for sales. Potential customers can already see the contents of the misc section and if they are confused they ask or just put something there expecting it to be cared for (which the salesman then moves).

2. The higher number of viewers in the social lounge represents much more than members who simply want to hang out. Those could crawlers searching for key words or a Google search for something non-computer related landing the searcher here. There's a lot there.

3. Number of options != sales. Watch any car commercial or visit with any salesman. The focus is on the perceived benefit of popular features, not shear number. Even if you ask for all features, they'll mention 3, focus on one. Ask for more and you get two more, focusing again on one.

4. This is a forum and not a business. The whole sales analogy is inherintly skewed because the sales method is completely useless on a forum like this. On the backend, I imagine there is a little kickback to the owners from ad-clicks but nothing that's going make anyone rich. A forum is intended to draw intellectual debate with no expectation of ROI. When I post guides or walkthroughs, I know that it was something I did so others may be helped; I won't be paid for my services nor will I get worldwide recognition or my name on a shoe.

The goal of a forum is to simply provide some help, have some laughs and learn something. However, Quality is always greater than Quantity. We're not competing against other forums for post or thread count so... IMHO, three days between meaningful posts is much better (although not desirable) to a flood of posts with no substance.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:17 PM   #19
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Sales has nothing to do with running the forum so why bring that into all of this, No one is here to make a profit out of all this..
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: A new forum

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IMHO, creating another forum is not going to drive posts or discussion.

Let's continue this 'sales' theme as it's something I've specialized for many years in my career.
A car salesman can only sell 100 cars per month. He cannot expand his lot nor can he build a secondary location. He is confined to the lot he already owns. There is no shortage of variety in the kinds of car he sells. His lot is already divided into sections depending on the model of the car. He also has a small section laid out for various other motorized vehicles. This mainly consists of ATV's, motorcycles, boats and golf carts.

Without being able to buy a new lot or a larger lot, there's not much he can do to drive sales when relating to the organization of the lot. I liken the above conversation into the car salesman making a different section for motorcycles because they only have two wheels, and keeping the rest in the previous section. What about the boat though? Should it get its own section now because it is a prop engine?

A few points here.

1. Dividing his lot does nothing for sales. Potential customers can already see the contents of the misc section and if they are confused they ask or just put something there expecting it to be cared for (which the salesman then moves).

2. The higher number of viewers in the social lounge represents much more than members who simply want to hang out. Those could crawlers searching for key words or a Google search for something non-computer related landing the searcher here. There's a lot there.

3. Number of options != sales. Watch any car commercial or visit with any salesman. The focus is on the perceived benefit of popular features, not shear number. Even if you ask for all features, they'll mention 3, focus on one. Ask for more and you get two more, focusing again on one.

4. This is a forum and not a business. The whole sales analogy is inherintly skewed because the sales method is completely useless on a forum like this. On the backend, I imagine there is a little kickback to the owners from ad-clicks but nothing that's going make anyone rich. A forum is intended to draw intellectual debate with no expectation of ROI. When I post guides or walkthroughs, I know that it was something I did so others may be helped; I won't be paid for my services nor will I get worldwide recognition or my name on a shoe.

The goal of a forum is to simply provide some help, have some laughs and learn something. However, Quality is always greater than Quantity. We're not competing against other forums for post or thread count so... IMHO, three days between meaningful posts is much better (although not desirable) to a flood of posts with no substance.
Even if it is a forum which this website is, it's still a business as it has to get funds from somewheres to pay its bills to keep running. There is a connection to selling as both have a common link to statistics and probability. I agree it's a non-profit, but even non-profits, as I just said, must pay those bills.

Just to mention, for you and some others, are you acquainted with Joe Girard? You may find the following interesting reading: Joe Girard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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