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Old 08-20-2009, 02:43 AM   #61
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Default Re: Forum "Update"

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Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
I don't understand why things have to be manually done.
How would VB know what should go out of general software/hardware into something like operating systems?
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:01 AM   #62
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Default Re: Forum "Update"

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So you do a keyword search on cooling and overclocking and you move those to their threads. Then you search for "build" and move those. The rest you leave on General Hardware. If an inactive thread pops up (by latest post) on the wrong forum, a mod can simply move it. This way the ones that pop up can get sorted out correctly and it won't require mods to move 80k+ threads.
I think you're grossly underestimating the complexity of the task here. Have you ever tried to sort unreliable databases while just using keywords? Keyword searches are unreliable at best, and by "at best" I mean on forums where there's actively enforced rules about spelling, grammar, and meaningful topic titles. On here, where posts are often mis-spelled and threads use titles like "computer failure" (which, let's face it, could mean anything!) it would be nigh impossible to sort this out automatically. That's not meant to be a dig at this forum at all, but I'm afraid if you're saying "it doesn't have to be difficult", you'll need a more convincing explanation as to why.

Also - there's a lot of things bouncing around this thread at the moment that just aren't true / aren't relevant. To dispel a few things I've seen:

Quote:
if the thread hasnt had a post for lets say 1 month then it gets an auto lock to stop people from posting in them. Just an idea.
On some forums that's the case, but it's not a very flexible system - and it wouldn't help one bit with all the rearranging.

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Communication/AIM can be moved to Applications (basically renamed).
Can it? There's at least a few threads in communication / AIM that I would've thought belong in the social lounge rather than applications.

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I'm sorry, but you should look around at other better-performing forums. This is not too many categories by a long shot, David. Plus, if you factor in some of the condensing we talked about AFTER I posted that picture, there's a few less categories, after that.
The key words you've used there are "better performing" - but you've come to completely the wrong conclusion here. Better performing forums aren't better performing because they've got more sections. Better performing forums have more sections because they're better performing! If I go ahead and create a forum with one section that a few people use, fair enough. If I then go ahead and create 20 more sections to split it up better and attract more people, it's just going to make the thing look sparse, not make it bigger...!

Another practical point looking at this from a future proofing perspective. One of the suggestions for change is that we merge all the web forums. Fair enough. Then a few years down the line when someone else posts a similar thread saying he thinks they'd be better as more organised, and split into design, programming and hosting, how are they going to be split up again?

It does strike me that while a lot of members seem to be for this switch, a lot of the mods / David don't seem to be so keen... So personally, before we post anything else or continue arguing about the details and practicalities, I think we should wait for David to come in and give a definite stance on whether this is going ahead. If he says yes, or maybe if the right design comes up and someone can work all the practicalities out in a way he's happy with, fair enough. If it's a case of no, let's close this and all go home and just be happy with what we've got without moaning it's not exactly in the format we want it.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:09 AM   #63
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Default Re: Forum "Update"

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Originally Posted by berry120 View Post

It does strike me that while a lot of members seem to be for this switch, a lot of the mods / David don't seem to be so keen...
I am certainly not against it. I voted yes for it. BUT only if it is done 100% right...not halfarsed cause there is no other easy way to do it. If it is not done right then how will it be any different to the way it is?

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.. So personally, before we post anything else or continue arguing about the details and practicalities, I think we should wait for David to come in and give a definite stance on whether this is going ahead.
couldn't agree more
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:47 PM   #64
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Default Re: Forum "Update"

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How would VB know what should go out of general software/hardware into something like operating systems?
What I'm saying is, there's thousands and thousands of forums out there. Why would VB make it so difficult (which everyone is making it sound like) to rearrange a forum? THAT is what I'm talking about. I have no idea...I don't use VB...I've never seen the guts and code. I've only seen it on this side. Ya know? I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe rearranging this stuff is SUPER difficult and SUPER time consuming, since you would've thought VB would take that into consideration when they designed their software/code.

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If it is not done right then how will it be any different to the way it is?
Agreed. If it's half-assed, we might as well not do it at all.
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:27 PM   #65
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Default Re: Forum "Update"

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Originally Posted by berry120 View Post
Can it? There's at least a few threads in communication / AIM that I would've thought belong in the social lounge rather than applications.
If they should belong to the Social Lounge why aren't they there now? Forums are bound to have threads in the wrong section, the good ones just have less. I think it's very doable if we search for keywords on the title of the thread. It's not like people are going to come inspecting our forum for misplaced threads. In addition, most of the threads in Computer Hardware/Software aren't meant to stay alive after the question is been answered. We should definitely make sure that any guides or threads with really insightful discussions/comments be relocated to their proper position.
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:46 PM   #66
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Default Re: Forum "Update"

"I know pretty much nothing about computers..."
"Problems, no clue where to start"
"Acer Aspire one problem"
"Still having issues with my set up!!! "

These are a few thread titles just on the 2nd page of general computer help. What keywords are going to get these threads into their correct sections Joga? There would be thousands of other threads just like this. Surely you don't expect to be able to search for "processor" and have all the processor related threads ready to move into the processor forum? I really don't think you are thinking about this too deeply.
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:48 PM   #67
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Default Re: Forum "Update"

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"I know pretty much nothing about computers..."
"Problems, no clue where to start"
"Acer Aspire one problem"
"Still having issues with my set up!!! "

These are a few thread titles just on the 2nd page of general computer help. What keywords are going to get these threads into their correct sections Joga? There would be thousands of other threads just like this. Surely you don't expect to be able to search for "processor" and have all the processor related threads ready to move into the processor forum? I really don't think you are thinking about this too deeply.
I consider this all General Hardware because they surely don't fit into the following:

-System Building/Upgrading
-Overclocking/Cooling
-Modding
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:51 PM   #68
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Default Re: Forum "Update"

How do you know they aren't general software without opening the thread and looking at them?
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:05 PM   #69
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Default Re: Forum "Update"

Since my suggestion about waiting for David seems to have been ignored...!

Quote:
How do you know they aren't general software without opening the thread and looking at them?
Exactly!

"I know pretty much nothing about computers..."...but want to learn how to build / upgrade my own
"Problems, no clue where to start"...can't seem to get my overclock stable
"Acer Aspire one problem"...keeps locking up when overclocked
"Still having issues with my set up!!! "...tried to mod the case and it fell apart

The above could ALL (ok possibly with the exception of the last) be possible topics for the thread. The problems don't end there, would automated tagging put a title like "Overclocking a core 2 processor" in processors or overclocking? Surely it matches both keywords? And as I pointed out above, this is all BEFORE you get to matching keywords that haven't been spelled correctly and suchlike...

Once again - I stand firmly by the point that you're vastly underestimating the size of the task at hand here. Yes you could sort them with a 20% success rate (perhaps if you're lucky) or dump them all in an archived section, but that's not doing the job properly!

Quote:
Why would VB make it so difficult (which everyone is making it sound like) to rearrange a forum? THAT is what I'm talking about. I have no idea...I don't use VB...I've never seen the guts and code. I've only seen it on this side. Ya know? I'm just saying that I find it hard to believe rearranging this stuff is SUPER difficult and SUPER time consuming, since you would've thought VB would take that into consideration when they designed their software/code.
With the utmost respect, your logic and reasoning here seems to, by your own admission, be based on assumptions that you haven't yet even attempted to validate. I find it difficult to believe such a general script exists because of all the problems outlined above. You just couldn't make something that worked well with every forum out there, there'd be too many problems and as such you'd spend years coding something that didn't quite work as it should.
Yes there might be a mediocre script out there that bodges things around a bit to get a 5% success rate, but (correct me if I'm wrong) that's not what we're after here.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:08 PM   #70
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Default Re: Forum "Update"

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
(Delete->)General(<-Delete)
(Delete->)Technical(<-Delete)
(Delete->)Webhosting(<-Delete) (replace with the following:->)

Hardware
-> General Hardware
-> System Building/Upgrading
-> Overclocking/Cooling
-> Modding
-> Galleries

Software
->General Software
->Operating Systems
->Applications
->Security/Anti-Virus
->Programming

Networking/Internet
->Servers and Home/Office Networking
->Web Programming/Design/Review/Hosting

General
->Social Lounge
->CF Comments/Suggestions
->Buy/Sell/Trade
Quote:
Originally Posted by berry120 View Post
Since my suggestion about waiting for David seems to have been ignored...!


Exactly!

"I know pretty much nothing about computers..."...but want to learn how to build / upgrade my own
"Problems, no clue where to start"...can't seem to get my overclock stable
"Acer Aspire one problem"...keeps locking up when overclocked
"Still having issues with my set up!!! "...tried to mod the case and it fell apart

The above could ALL (ok possibly with the exception of the last) be possible topics for the thread. The problems don't end there, would automated tagging put a title like "Overclocking a core 2 processor" in processors or overclocking? Surely it matches both keywords? And as I pointed out above, this is all BEFORE you get to matching keywords that haven't been spelled correctly and suchlike...

Once again - I stand firmly by the point that you're vastly underestimating the size of the task at hand here. Yes you could sort them with a 20% success rate (perhaps if you're lucky) or dump them all in an archived section, but that's not doing the job properly!
Could you please point my eyes to where you see a processors forum?
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