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Old 01-04-2004, 03:36 AM   #11
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Your probably starting programming right?, I started with QBASIC, well acctually an earlier version of BASIC called Color BASIC, which was the standard programming language for a mid 1980s machine called the TRS-80 made by Radio-Shack.

Then I later migrated to QBASIC and learnt structured programming, then to C++ and learnt Object Orientated Programing.

C++ is esoteric and noobs are generally prone to confusion, there's always plenty of time to learn a language like C++, but try not to go with ANY OOP language if your inexperienced with other languages, although that's a general rule, one's ability to pick up a language is dependant upon the person.


Anyway, I'm interested in PERL that David mentioned, I've heard about it, but I don't understand why there needs to be 2 languages (PHP being the second) for the same thing. I'd be intersted to hear anyones opinion on it.

And this other programming language; Python, I have also heard about it before, but haven't had any exposure to it.
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:09 AM   #12
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Although in defence of Visual BASIC; it's a very specfic language and it's application within most programming projects becomes minimal whilst working outside the Windows platform with maybe Linux/Unix etc.

Your right that it may not be particually suitable for programming noobs, but within it's own territory it has no competition (apps and windows), and rationalizes it's complexities with the power it provides the programmer.

Help support, interoperatability with all the other relatively standarized Microsoft software, it provides a simplistic and logical IDE layout that can be used to construct familiar, easy-to-use GUI programs.

It's your classic dedicated OS application development tool, not a rugged multipurpose tool like C++, which justifies it's non-acceptance within the renegade programming community, that have choosen not to conform to Windows, or Microsoft, but rather open-source projects; reguarly that are non-proprietary (linux).

Although apart from it hereditarily apparent positives that it boasts, it lacks in flexibility as exemplified by the fact that it's not open source, it lacks in portability (self explainitory) and its proprietory of Microsoft, although a free, downloadable; educational version of VB is distributed by Microsoft.

I'd be intersted to hear your thoughts Rocker.

RC
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Old 01-04-2004, 03:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: What's good to learn?

I must say Reiken, i thoroughly enjoyed reading that. In response ...

Quote:
Although in defence of Visual BASIC; it's a very specfic language and it's application within most programming projects becomes minimal whilst working outside the Windows platform with maybe Linux/Unix etc.
I totally agree with you.

Quote:
Your right that it may not be particually suitable for programming noobs, but within it's own territory it has no competition (apps and windows), and rationalizes it's complexities with the power it provides the programmer.
You maybe right "Within its own territory" ... but i was merely looking at practicality here ... in the situation of my friend "Shadow0fDeath", he wishes to use Linux and connect it to the net. Now, unless he wants the trouble of 2 connections, 1 for Linux and 1 for Windows, he is gonna be connected to the net through Linux, yet may still possibly use Windows too through one connection by simply dual booting the 2 OS's. Now, i agree that VB is a relatively decent Language "within its own territory", but for someone who is wishing to use Linux too, a language like Python would be a far better choice for him - because its easily usable on both Windows and Linux. This will release him from the troubles of havng to learn yet another language, simply for him to be able to program on Linux. What im saying is Python is a better choice for a beginner starting out in programming, since they normally start out with Windows and want to move on to Linux, this will enable them to continue to learn a good, flexible language, whichever OS they are running on there computer.

Quote:
Although apart from it hereditarily apparent positives that it boasts, it lacks in flexibility as exemplified by the fact that it's not open source, it lacks in portability (self explainitory) and its proprietory of Microsoft, although a free, downloadable; educational version of VB is distributed by Microsoft.
Once again, i agree with you. You noted the Open Source code too. Not only this, but its run on an OS which also isnt Open Source - Aka, Microsoft. Something like Python is usable on Linux, which is an Open Source OS. Any programmer has whale of a time with Linux - experimenting, searching and altering the codes can be fun. Along with a easy language like Python (i know, i love Python) a noob programmer is already well on his way, as long as he/she is willing to put in the work involved with learning.

As for the "free, educational, downloadable" version of VB, im sure the program itself has quite a few limitations compared to the payed version - after all, it is made by an OS company that is well known for its money. I very much doubt that Microsoft would give you something as relatively good as VB for free.


I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as i did yours.

- John
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:45 PM   #14
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Even though I may be striked down by the computer Gods, I am going to have to say that C# may be the way to go. Now you can always go through the chore of learning C++, hell I have been programming in it for years now, however if you want to write good looking, powerful apps, quick C# is the way to start. Everything is shifting over to managed code, we have seen it with the advent of MFC and ATL, and now with the new onset of Longhorn(I think debuing officially next year) almost all of windows programming will be with managed code. With that in mind, unless you are a diehard control freak of a programmer, like myself, the way to go is really C#. It is a good compromise between the power of C and the ease of use of VB and a great starter language.
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Old 02-06-2004, 11:13 AM   #15
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Default Re: What's good to learn?

Yeah, looks like a good idea but I think people will still go with C/C++
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Old 02-06-2004, 04:42 PM   #16
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Yeah, most likely. C has been around for ever and C++ is getting there is age as well. However Microsoft is pushing C# pretty hard, hell most of their examples for Longhorn are in C#! However undoubtedly you will wind up with C++ if you are into serious programming. I just think alot of people are going to start with C# as their path to get there vice BASIC for example.
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Old 02-16-2004, 09:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: What's good to learn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveller
Even though I may be striked down by the computer Gods, I am going to have to say that C# may be the way to go. Now you can always go through the chore of learning C++, hell I have been programming in it for years now, however if you want to write good looking, powerful apps, quick C# is the way to start. Everything is shifting over to managed code, we have seen it with the advent of MFC and ATL, and now with the new onset of Longhorn(I think debuing officially next year) almost all of windows programming will be with managed code. With that in mind, unless you are a diehard control freak of a programmer, like myself, the way to go is really C#. It is a good compromise between the power of C and the ease of use of VB and a great starter language.
Yeah, I agree with this - C# is the language I would like to learn first when I get Studio 2003 (and a couple of books), soon I hope. I'm intrigued as to what the .NET puts on to the language? Is it just extra things it can do? more choices? more useful? easier to code? or use?

Yeah, it does seem a better bet to learn C# first, and then C++, and so on through as many as possible! Longhorn Beta should be coming out soon, cross fingers!

Does anybody know what will be happening with the 64-bit Computers that will be coming on and Programming? I know that the numbers have to change; and I doubt that the codes have to change - only the handlers. I just wanted this to be confermed or otherwise.
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Old 02-16-2004, 10:03 AM   #18
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Default Re: What's good to learn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveller
Yeah, most likely. C has been around for ever and C++ is getting there is age as well. However Microsoft is pushing C# pretty hard, hell most of their examples for Longhorn are in C#! However undoubtedly you will wind up with C++ if you are into serious programming. I just think alot of people are going to start with C# as their path to get there vice BASIC for example.
Hopefully!
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Old 02-22-2004, 06:23 PM   #19
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The only changes should be the data types and the handles. For example the handle datatype will refer to a 64 bit address vice a 32 bit one. Plus some new 64 bit datatypes. The majority of the changes will be almost transparent to the programmer just like the change from a 16 bit to a 32 bit OS.
Speaking of languages, does anyone remember a time when assembly was suggested to learn for gaming? Oh and as for the math thing, algebra is definitely something to become proficient in if you want to do gaming (vectors, 3D fields, and whatnot do revolve around algebra)
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Old 02-22-2004, 08:14 PM   #20
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Ah, cool, yeah - I'm going to do Pure Maths at College; I hoped that would help with Programming although I do not intend to do anything in the realms of Game Programming - depending on where I get sent at Microsoft if and when I get there!
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