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Old 03-08-2013, 04:06 PM   #1
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Default Java and viruses

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Originally Posted by berry120 View Post
Nah, Java applets have been frought with security holes for ages (which is why most modern browsers disable them by default anyway) but desktop Java is as secure as anything else.

Nice little starter app, although it's not resizable and doesn't scroll? Can't see the source because you haven't attached it to the jar, but try adding your main component to a scrollpane and making the JFrame resizable, which should solve that issue.
ok but most virus writers right in jarva and jarva script to infect a pc I hate jarva with a passion but but everyone is entitled to there opinion I guess I just like vb.net and assembley as my laguages to right in and script lanages vbscript and batch but good to see an open thought thead.

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Old 03-08-2013, 07:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: Java Programming Application

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ok but most virus writers right in jarva and jarva script to infect a pc I hate jarva with a passion but but everyone is entitled to there opinion I guess I just like vb.net and assembley as my laguages to right in and script lanages vbscript and batch but good to see an open thought thead.

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Sorry, but unless you can point me to an authoritative source for that I'm going to say that's complete rubbish. All viruses I've seen have been in platform dependant, native code - you just can't hide a virus well enough that relies on Java, and you'll always have a very easy way of removing it!

Java would be one of the least likely languages to write a virus in. Perhaps you're getting confused with web based Applet attacks, or JavaScript?
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Java Programming Application

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Originally Posted by berry120 View Post
Sorry, but unless you can point me o an authoritative source for that I'm going to say that's complete rubbish. All viruses I've seen have been in platform dependant, native code - you just can't hide a virus well enough that relies on Java, and you'll always have a very easy way of removing it!

Java would be one of the least likely languages to write a virus in. Perhaps you're getting confused with web based Applet attacks, or JavaScript?
No web based virus attacks are different, they are written in PHP and send you to a server to download the infection to your pc. They are the Java scripted specific attacks normally not always some are written in ruby and c++ to be honest you can write a virus attack in any language but most viruses are written in java Script. Like I said I prefer vb.net and assembly programming myself. Java is not my coding language but it is down to personal choice when it comes down to it as there is so many languages you can sit down and learn. Why do you think they have antivirus software for Mac and Linux operating systems then? Please respect other views.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: Java Programming Application

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Originally Posted by Fujitsu_Technician View Post
No web based virus attacks are different, they are written in PHP and send you to a server to download the infection to your pc. They are the Java scripted specific attacks normally not always some are written in ruby and c++ to be honest you can write a virus attack in any language but most viruses are written in java Script. Like I said I prefer vb.net and assembly programming myself. Java is not my coding language but it is down to personal choice when it comes down to it as there is so many languages you can sit down and learn. Why do you think they have antivirus software for Mac and Linux operating systems then? Please respect other views.
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Sorry, but this is plain wrong. I respect other views when it comes to subjective decisions - you hate Java, I rather like it, your favourite colour might be red, mine might be blue, you might like writing games, I might like writing web apps, I'm a Christian, you may be a Muslim / Buddhist / Athiest / Pastafarian. No qualms there at all.

What I do have objection to however is when people say stuff that's plain wrong, the same way you might (rightly) object if I say that all oranges are blue, or the current president of the USA is actually Bob Marley. And what you said here:
Quote:
ok but most virus writers right in jarva and jarva script to infect a pc
...is, as far as I can make out plain wrong, and along with what you've written already shows quite a limited and muddled understanding of the topic in hand.

Allow me to try and present my point and clear up some of the confusion here. Once again, I'm talking about desktop Java - *applets* are different, and I freely admit have huge numbers of security holes; their use for this reason is fading fast. If your argument was based around the fact that attacks through applets were hugely prevalent, I wouldn't hesitate to disagree, because I'm aware of various figures which has shown this to be the case. I still think you're probably confusing the figures over attacks through applets, rather than attacks through desktop Java applications.

Admittedly viruses / security isn't my specialist area, but Java is - I've used it almost daily as my primary language for the best part of the last decade, and written more lines of code in it than I care to count. So if you're saying something about it that's wrong, I will jump in there and pull you up on it. Same goes for anyone, not just you

Java is good for many things, but writing viruses is not one of them. Java apps aren't compiled natively, they're compiled to bytecode, and the bytecode runs on a JVM. This is great for platform independence, but awful for exploiting individual security holes on platforms, and makes the virus incredibly difficult to hide (there's always going to be a java(w) process hanging about somewhere) and incredibly difficult to remove (you could disable it by simply removing the JRE.)

Now, there are exceptions to all of the things I've written in the previous paragraph, but they take time, effort, and often involve sacrificing the platform independence that you get with Java to start with anyway. You can, if you really go to a lot of effort, compile Java code natively. You can, with an extreme amount of effort, go some way to hiding it without a java process running. But as a virus writer, why on earth would you when you could do the same thing incredibly easily using another language? It makes no sense. I've seen many annoying viruses written in C, C++, C#, and especially Delphi, but I can't recall any that have been Java based. I'm sure there have been some, but I'd be willing to bet many more viruses have been written in, say VB.NET than Java. If you have examples of any that have been I'd actually be genuinely interested if you could point them out (no sarcasm there, it's just so I can have a poke around at how they operate.)

Quote:
Why do you think they have antivirus software for Mac and Linux operating systems then?
Because these aren't usually the same viruses at all, they're usually entirely different, again written in native code, but targeted at a different platform. By that logic, the vast majority of viruses would equally affect every OS (because all that nasty platform independent Java code can get everywhere, right?)

Javascript (all one word) is an entirely different technology, one that has near enough nothing to do with Java, the naming is completely arbitrary.

So when you say:
Quote:
No web based virus attacks are different, they are written in PHP and send you to a server to download the infection to your pc. They are the Java scripted specific attacks normally not always some are written in ruby and c++ to be honest you can write a virus attack in any language but most viruses are written in java Script.
...you further muddle the point! This makes no sense whatsoever - what's a "web based virus attack?!" And how is this different to a "normal" virus as you would define it?
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: Java and viruses

this is not my thead I am off. find some else to insult
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: Java and viruses

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this is not my thead I am off. find some else to insult
By all means, if you can quote some sources or find a logical argument to prove me wrong, I'm all ears - my intention isn't to be insulting at all, simply to present the facts and show you why what you were saying was incorrect in a clear, cohesive manner.

If you choose to find that insulting, then that's entirely up to you.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: Java and viruses

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Originally Posted by berry120 View Post
By all means, if you can quote some sources or find a logical argument to prove me wrong, I'm all ears - my intention isn't to be insulting at all, simply to present the facts and show you why what you were saying was incorrect in a clear, cohesive manner.

If you choose to find that insulting, then that's entirely up to you.
I've been reading this thread and I think I am following your logic. I used to code in C++ and assembly, but never JAVA, so I know nothing about it. I am going to assume by applets you mean something like add-ons in Firefox? Would Flashplayer be an applet? What I would like to do is enable the good part of JAVA and get rid of the other which seems to be a distinct subset or perhaps something altogether different. Any help would be appreciated. Floyd
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:58 AM   #8
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Default Re: Java and viruses

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Originally Posted by berry120 View Post
By all means, if you can quote some sources or find a logical argument to prove me wrong, I'm all ears - my intention isn't to be insulting at all, simply to present the facts and show you why what you were saying was incorrect in a clear, cohesive manner.

If you choose to find that insulting, then that's entirely up to you.
since I don't know enough about the language I can not say but what I do know is that java and java script have been used in a lot of attacks I only said what happend to me not that I know java.

and if that is your subject then fair enough but What made me cross is that you started a tread in my name when it was not my thead you abused your power as a site team member you are wrong to start threads when I never asked you if I wanted to start a thead I would have done so.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: Java and viruses

The thread isn't started in your name, it's clearly split from a different thread,

It's quite normal that if a thread is going off topic, but in an interesting way that the off topic posts may be split out to a new thread, preserving the original thread for the original topic and preserving the off topic content that is of interest in a new thread so that it can be discussed.

None of your posts have been edited, the words are all your own words.
The only thing that berry has contributed is the thread title.

If you have a problem with the thread title then it can be changed.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: Java and viruses

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I've been reading this thread and I think I am following your logic. I used to code in C++ and assembly, but never JAVA, so I know nothing about it. I am going to assume by applets you mean something like add-ons in Firefox? Would Flashplayer be an applet? What I would like to do is enable the good part of JAVA and get rid of the other which seems to be a distinct subset or perhaps something altogether different. Any help would be appreciated. Floyd
The applet plugin is an add-on for browsers, yes - applets are the programs that are designed to run in a browser with this plugin. So flash player isn't an applet (but in fairness that is frought with security vulnerabilities also, they're just a bit less publicised.)

The reasons the applet plugin is so insecure are numerous and rely on a few rather technical details of how it's been implemented, so I won't go into it here - but suffice to say they're really fighting against a broken architecture that's been in the plugin since day 1 and would require a huge re-write to address.

Instructions for disabling it in browsers can be found here, ignore the bit about uninstalling it completely at the bottom - pure scaremongering. Disable the browser plugin and you'll be fine.
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