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Old 10-07-2004, 01:45 PM   #231
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

OK, I can see that I'm not going to change your mind... (so I'll shift the onus onto you...)

Now how about you make the effort to change mine.
Show me a perl distribution in dll files that integrate directly with ring0 on windows.
show me how perl or python has evloved...
prove that python is not at an evolutionary deadend...

I have a spare few hours in the evenings, convince meto use them to investigate perl or python rather than run with PHP as a newer lanuguage.
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Old 10-07-2004, 04:10 PM   #232
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
OK, I can see that I'm not going to change your mind... (so I'll shift the onus onto you...)

Now how about you make the effort to change mine.
I don't have any interest in changing your mind, I'm just presenting my opinion. You'll have to change your own mind, or not.

Quote:
Show me a perl distribution in dll files that integrate directly with ring0 on windows.
I don't do Windows programming and I know nothing about it.

Quote:
show me how perl or python has evloved...
prove that python is not at an evolutionary deadend...
Public information. Google is your friend.

Quote:
I have a spare few hours in the evenings, convince meto use them to investigate perl or python rather than run with PHP as a newer lanuguage.
I don't have the spare hours to educate you. I've used all these languages and I prefer Python as a language and for many kinds of projects. If PHP is sufficient for your needs then stick with it.
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Old 10-07-2004, 05:21 PM   #233
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

Quote:
Originally Posted by inimino
I don't have any interest in changing your mind, I'm just presenting my opinion. You'll have to change your own mind, or not.
My point was that I had presented a case which you had shouted down with little (i.e, no) hard evidence, upon researching and trying to back up what you were saying came to numerous deadends...
I'm just suggesting that in a civilised conversation you should present facts in a clear and consise manner, not just go through posts saying wrong wrong wrong,
Quote:
I don't do Windows programming and I know nothing about it.
So when you told me I was wrong when talking about the integration of the scripting languages with the OS as DLL files (quite specific to windows) you were in fact telling me I was wrong for the sake of it? you've later stated that you don't know about windows,

Quote:
Public information. Google is your friend.
You missed the point, I did use google to ersearch the points I made, it seems that you didn't...

Anyway according to your wn definitions of 'evoutionary dead end' both perl and python are at an evolutionary dead end, having been around for many years and spawned no significant modifications or daughter languages, whilst development does (apparantly) continue, the ideas pool appears to be a little stagnent.

Quote:
I don't have the spare hours to educate you. I've used all these languages and I prefer Python as a language and for many kinds of projects. If PHP is sufficient for your needs then stick with it.
I never asked you to educate me, I challenged you to make suggestions as to why it would be worth my while to learn this aging language over a new lanuguage that has more features...

frankly after a small adventure with perl I decided that it was not worth whilse, to monolithic, barly structured (or open to too many interperatations of what does count as structure)...
(as a network engineer who has trained as a C programmer for programming console programs and embedded on chip solutions I like (and almost need) things to be structured,) -perl didn't give me that, and nor did python when I looked at it.
in fact python seemed more like scripting temporary batch files rather than making something that would stand the test of time,

So...
it seems that you fail to provide any reasonable argument why anyone should choose any one labuguage over another, your only arguments being.

1, you use a particular language and feel most comfortable with that language.

2, you'll shout anone else with a differing opinion down with no reasonable evidence or prooven backed up alternative...

At the end of the day, yes PHP does fulfill my programming needs (as I mostly use PHP for prototyping console C applications),
but since I was assured that PHP was at an evolutionary deadend, and that in ten years nobody would be using it, I was asking why should I move to an even older language with a fewer (obvious) features and less (obvious) structure?
your lack of response assures me that I shouldn't make a move towards either python or perl over PHP.
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Old 10-07-2004, 06:06 PM   #234
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
My point was that I had presented a case which you had shouted down with little (i.e, no) hard evidence, upon researching and trying to back up what you were saying came to numerous deadends...
I'm just suggesting that in a civilised conversation you should present facts in a clear and consise manner, not just go through posts saying wrong wrong wrong,

So when you told me I was wrong when talking about the integration of the scripting languages with the OS as DLL files (quite specific to windows) you were in fact telling me I was wrong for the sake of it? you've later stated that you don't know about windows,
It wasn't clear that you were talking about Windows. I was responding to this:

Quote:
I said that close level OS integration of PHP (through the use of modules and libraries rather than excecutables had over taken perl...
And since both Python and Perl have extensive libraries (which do not involve calling external executables) I responded on that level. If there are specific limitations on Windows that apply to these languages, that's interesting. Like I said I know nothing about Windows programming, having done none of it for years.

Quote:
You missed the point, I did use google to ersearch the points I made, it seems that you didn't...

Anyway according to your wn definitions of 'evoutionary dead end' both perl and python are at an evolutionary dead end, having been around for many years and spawned no significant modifications or daughter languages, whilst development does (apparantly) continue, the ideas pool appears to be a little stagnent.
According to that definition all three languages are at evolutionary dead ends, so far. So it's impossible to make definitive judgements about this. I'm just expressing my own opinion about where things are going. I don't see any real new and interesting ideas in any of these languages. Certainly I don't see Perl evolving directly into the next "big thing" in programming, Perl is largely the snips and tails of everything else collected over the years into a single mash.

Quote:
I never asked you to educate me, I challenged you to make suggestions as to why it would be worth my while to learn this aging language over a new lanuguage that has more features...
If you're not interested in it, then it isn't worth your while.

Quote:
frankly after a small adventure with perl I decided that it was not worth whilse, to monolithic, barly structured (or open to too many interperatations of what does count as structure)...
(as a network engineer who has trained as a C programmer for programming console programs and embedded on chip solutions I like (and almost need) things to be structured,) -perl didn't give me that, and nor did python when I looked at it.
in fact python seemed more like scripting temporary batch files rather than making something that would stand the test of time,
I agree, Perl is incredibly unstructured in many ways. That's both a strength and a weakness. Long term, I think it proves to quite a bit more of a weakness, but then Perl isn't meant for writing huge programs. Perl is best at string manipulation, and it did that better than anything. At this point other languages have similar capabilities and I wouldn't recommend you learn Perl if you have no reason to need it.

As for Python, it is a much more structured language, and considerably more orderly than Perl or PHP, and quite a bit more stable than PHP in terms of features.

Quote:
So...
it seems that you fail to provide any reasonable argument why anyone should choose any one labuguage over another, your only arguments being.

1, you use a particular language and feel most comfortable with that language.

2, you'll shout anone else with a differing opinion down with no reasonable evidence or prooven backed up alternative...
I feel comfortable with whatever I think is best for the task at hand. If you'll look back over the thread, I didn't shout anyone down. I simply expressed my opinions, and when you responded, I pointed out some perceived errors in what you wrote. I never claimed Python is the one true language, it's far from that. You are the one who went on about how PHP has "far surpassed" Python and Perl, and as someone who has used all three I felt that was worth responding to.

Quote:
At the end of the day, yes PHP does fulfill my programming needs (as I mostly use PHP for prototyping console C applications),
but since I was assured that PHP was at an evolutionary deadend, and that in ten years nobody would be using it, I was asking why should I move to an even older language with a fewer (obvious) features and less (obvious) structure?
your lack of response assures me that I shouldn't make a move towards either python or perl over PHP.
In 10 years, nobody will be using any of these languages. Use whatever you know and feel comfortable with.
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Old 10-28-2004, 10:28 AM   #235
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

I Dont No Bout Progrmin But I Have Seen Loads Of Fourums Sayin That The C++ Is Very Good
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:21 AM   #236
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

c++ iz liek teh aw3some omg!! lolz!

crazy! all languages can be useful. and if you don't like any language, make your own
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Old 01-12-2005, 02:11 PM   #237
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That is a way around it :P
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Old 01-22-2005, 11:15 AM   #238
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I'm currently learning C++ and Java for university and I believe both to have their strong points. C++ for the huge projects i.e windows features/programs. but Java for its cross platform ability when developing software, that in a sense, has no specific OS with which it must be designed for.
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Old 01-23-2005, 07:04 AM   #239
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C# I personally think is better for cross platform useage. More range of uses... more power because its based on C++ and so on.
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Old 01-23-2005, 12:10 PM   #240
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

really, didnt know C# was cross platform. I retract my previous statement then. just a random stupid question here, how do you actually 'say' C# ? i realised that i've never heard it said, only written.
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