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Old 10-03-2004, 05:47 AM   #221
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

python is cool
great language to start with
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Old 10-03-2004, 03:18 PM   #222
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

Hello, new here. What has happened to Perl? why wasn't that in there?

(granted it is a script but hey)
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Old 10-03-2004, 04:55 PM   #223
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
How can you possibly say PHP (the most widely used and fastest developing language most recent developments are that it pushes towards class based development, combinning it's powerfull C type syntax with the class based power of Java.) is at an evolutionary dead end?

and yet sing the praises of python (which has recieved little or no development for years). -not an evolutionary deadend, just a dead product.
Mostly I am expressing my carefully formed opinion of where language development as a whole is heading. I say that PHP, like Java, is an evolutionary dead end in the history of programming languages because I have some opinions of where that tree is branching. I'm not going to try to defend my opinion, but I will just point out a couple of things:

Python development is very active. Subscribe to the python-dev mailing list if you would like to know just how active. There's absolutely nothing dead about it.

Yes, PHP is widely used. Many popular and widely used technologies, such as Windows and MS Office, are in fact inferior to less widely-used competitors. What's your point?
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Old 10-05-2004, 04:38 AM   #224
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

gruvel gruvel gruvel,....
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Old 10-05-2004, 02:45 PM   #225
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

would you have said C is at an evolutionary dead end? the raw ANSI C libraries that ensure cross compatibility havn't changed or been changed in decades.

I see what you are saying, but in the same way as C eveloved into the graphical C++ PHP has evolved (or branched) into a graphical programming language (as well as a shell scripting and web CGI language) www.gtk.php.net

I suggested that PHP wasn't at an evolutionary dead end because of the size and supoprt of the project, and it's ongoing development...

However I suppose the since PHP is tied to the same kind of ridgid structure as C, and that might block a languages' development.
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Old 10-05-2004, 06:02 PM   #226
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
would you have said C is at an evolutionary dead end? the raw ANSI C libraries that ensure cross compatibility havn't changed or been changed in decades.
That wasn't quite what I was getting at. C isn't an evolutionary dead end because C++ and other languages have already evolved from it. The C branch of the evolutionary tree includes many branches, and it's not likely that that branch will die out. A language like Java on the other hand, while it may be useful, isn't likely (in my opinion) to parent exciting new languages. I put PHP in that category as well. Sure PHP has its place, but I don't see, 10 years from now, people using languages that sprang from PHP.

Quote:
I see what you are saying, but in the same way as C eveloved into the graphical C++ PHP has evolved (or branched) into a graphical programming language (as well as a shell scripting and web CGI language) www.gtk.php.net

I suggested that PHP wasn't at an evolutionary dead end because of the size and supoprt of the project, and it's ongoing development...

However I suppose the since PHP is tied to the same kind of ridgid structure as C, and that might block a languages' development.
C++ isn't graphical, although I'm nitpicking here. (There are graphical languages, but that doesn't mean languages you can do GUI programming in.)

PHP itself isn't at a dead end, I completely agree. I was expressing something bigger about the entire course of programming language development over time.
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:50 AM   #227
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

What I meant was C was extended into C++ which enabled the production of GUI programs, which cannot be developed in C on it's own...

I can see people still using PHP in ten years, specifically because of it's cross compatibility, in terms of use the DLL packages that can be registered in windows and the .so modules for linux mean that in terms of speed and OS integration the newcommer (PHP) has already overtaken the excecutable based interperated languages (such as PERL and Pyton)...

I can see further lanuages coming from PHP OR at least further development options, there are already compillers out there but I forsee more compilers allowing programs to be developed for platforms (i.e multi platform) currently most compilers can only create programs for linux...
and most people don't release scripted programs simply because they can be easily disassembled and code stolen...

On the subject of Java, it has spawned a "branch" -Javascript. with support for activeX not included in anything but IE, and javascript being a very powerfull language I can reasonably see its support and development continuing...

Java is still popular as a programming language, mainly for Linux but also for windows,
there are 5 different java models allowing support for java from all but the smallest of devices (T.v. remot controlls / Tv set top boxes / PDAS / Phones.
through desktop to hugly scalable server farms and clusters.

Whilst I agree Pyton does has it's merits, I still think in terms of usability, power, support and extensibility it falls far behind PHP.
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Old 10-06-2004, 12:55 PM   #228
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
What I meant was C was extended into C++ which enabled the production of GUI programs, which cannot be developed in C on it's own...
I've written many GUI programs in C. You can write Windows GUI programs in C, Linux GUI programs in C, Mac GUI programs in C, and cross-platform GUI programs in C. Most games are written in C, most operating systems (like Windows itself) are written in C.

Quote:
I can see people still using PHP in ten years, specifically because of it's cross compatibility, in terms of use the DLL packages that can be registered in windows and the .so modules for linux mean that in terms of speed and OS integration the newcommer (PHP) has already overtaken the excecutable based interperated languages (such as PERL and Pyton)...
PHP is more popular for Web development, but Python adoption (especially corporate adoption) is growing faster. PHP hasn't "overtaken" Perl in the corporate world, in fact it's not even in the ballpark when compared to Perl usage.

Quote:
On the subject of Java, it has spawned a "branch" -Javascript. with support for activeX not included in anything but IE, and javascript being a very powerfull language I can reasonably see its support and development continuing...
Despite the name, JavaScript has absolutely nothing to do with Java. JavaScript was invented by Netscape, and named as it was because Java was trendy at the time. There is no connection between the two languages, and that is why JavaScript is now properly called ECMAScript.
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Old 10-06-2004, 05:35 PM   #229
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

I never said that PHP acceptance and usage had overtaken perl, I said that close level OS integration of PHP (through the use of modules and libraries rather than excecutables had over taken perl...

The reason I said this is because the modules that enable this faster os level integration.
neither perl nor python (to my knowledge)have these, also neither perl nor python (to my knowledege) have spawned any other type of lagnuage based on the core language...

so in terms of technology, scalability, speed, use and evolution -past present and future
php has over taken both python and PHP
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Old 10-06-2004, 06:08 PM   #230
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Default Re: Favorite programming language

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
I never said that PHP acceptance and usage had overtaken perl, I said that close level OS integration of PHP (through the use of modules and libraries rather than excecutables had over taken perl...
That's not true either.

Quote:
The reason I said this is because the modules that enable this faster os level integration.
neither perl nor python (to my knowledge)have these
Both do. However, Perl is not known (or designed) for speed. Python is fast.

Quote:
, also neither perl nor python (to my knowledege) have spawned any other type of lagnuage based on the core language...
Neither has PHP. PHP-GTK isn't a new language, it's an extension.

Python has had the same facility for years, and you can write Python GUI programs using Tk, GTK, or wxWidgets.

Quote:
so in terms of technology, scalability, speed, use and evolution -past present and future
php has over taken both python and PHP
I have to disagree.
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