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Old 10-18-2004, 10:39 PM   #1
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Default Port 80

I was wondering why is it that a p2p network can't run through port 80. I am not trying to be a warez kiddy but from my very limited understanding when a program connects to something else through the net it will use a port. The most common port being 80 with http surfing. I am aware that ftp, torrents, etc use different ports, but why is this? Why is it that someone couldnt run these files through port 80. If anyone knows why I would be very thankful but I dont want anyone who 'has a good idea why' or pure speculation.

Thx in advance.
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Old 10-19-2004, 04:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: Port 80

All ports work differently.....Best example is HTTP Vs. HTTPS...HTTP uses port 80 which is a very popular port for web servers to transfer information. But, this port is not capable of sending secure packets across networks. Its like this for faster transfer capability and more overhead (I believe).
HTTPS uses port 443 which is a port that offers the ability to send secure packets over networks. Dosn't support as much overhead and speed as port 80 due to the security offered.

To answer you question about p2p and port 80, port 80 is used by web servers to reply to web requests. P2P networks do not comprise of one main server rather many home computers working as nodes and as servers. So in a nutshell there are many (& i mean MANY) ports that all offer different abilities. So, some work better than others for certain things.
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:29 AM   #3
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Default

By how do the ports physicaly differ from each other, and why can't you simply direct traffic through port 80?
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Old 10-20-2004, 09:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: Port 80

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayhawk
By how do the ports physicaly differ from each other, and why can't you simply direct traffic through port 80?
Because port 80 does not offer a secure connection for transferring dadta packets.....Port 80 has become a very popular port for web servers....Plus, due to the fact that it does not offer secure transfers, it has become a "Camping ground" for data packet sniffers aswell as worms & viruses.....I don't think you'll want to make a credit card purchase over a port like that one.....

It's not that it cannot be done, it's just about asking yourself this question "Would you rather be safe or sorry?".

P.S. There is no physical difference between ports. They do not exist within the Physical Layer of OSI Model.
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Old 10-20-2004, 06:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: Port 80

crysalis is wrong...
the ports are not physically differnt.
1, P2P networks don't use secure traffic.
2, SSL communication can happen over any port as the encryption takes place in the application layer not the socket layer of the 5 layer TCP/IP implementation OSI model...

the reason that p2p services don't take place over port 80 is this is the well known port for web traffic. if P2P applications listened on this port then server aplpications wouldnt be able to listen on this port.
Also you'll find that some service providers block port 80 (incomming) to stop people from hosting personal websites.

on IIS you can set the SSL port by selecting properties (when right clicking on the website in the managment tree) and changing the port, (obviously you have to change the TCP port as well because the secure socket layer listener and the TCP listener can't both listen on the same port.

in apache you need to look at the LoadModule ssl_module modules/mod_ssl.so (uncomment) to enable SSL...
you have to tel the server to listen on another port (though it doesn't matter which one).
then in a directory section of the conf file you need to turn SSL on, then you need to turn it off when you start the non-encryted part of your website
This is in the Apache manual distributed with every compiled copy of the website...

When you go to a site https://www.example.com the default port is used (port 443) in the same way that if you had gone to http://www.example.com the defaul port 80 would be queried. however you have specify ports...
https://www.example.com:80
http://www.example.com:443
(clever stuff huh? you see how I switched the secure and the non-secure ports around there?)...

port 80 is popular for packet sniffers(as is ports 20 FTPcontrol, 21 FTP data, 23 TELNET, 25 SMTP because they all (usually) require some sort of password or authentification(except SMTP but that can carry sensative data) all of the proptcols for these services were made in a time when security seemed less important, and hence they all use plain text transmission, (thats right fire up a packet sniffer and you'll see all manner of things)...

No real surprises there!

Also I'm not sure about Kazza but Kaazaa Lite lets you direct traffic through a sock5 complient proxy on whatever port you like (well whatever port the proxy is running on) and also lets you send connections on port 80

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Old 10-20-2004, 06:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Port 80

when did i say the ports are physically different?? I may haave explained myself in the wrong manner..But nothing in my statement is false....Especially, in regards to there being no physical difference...
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Old 10-20-2004, 07:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Port 80

I belive it was this part
Quote:
Originally Posted by crysalis
All ports work differently.....
though later in the thread you did correct yourself (all ports do in fact work the same)
the other error I corrected was this one

Quote:
Originally Posted by crysalis
Best example is HTTP Vs. HTTPS...HTTP uses port 80 which is a very popular port for web servers to transfer information. But, this port is not capable of sending secure packets across networks. Its like this for faster transfer capability and more overhead (I believe).
HTTPS uses port 443 which is a port that offers the ability to send secure packets over networks. Dosn't support as much overhead and speed as port 80 due to the security offered.
Which I corrected with reference to both the apache and IIS servers exaplaing how they could be configured,

The next error I noted was
Quote:
Originally Posted by crysalis
To answer you question about p2p and port 80, port 80 is used by web servers to reply to web requests. P2P networks do not comprise of one main server rather many home computers working as nodes and as servers. So in a nutshell there are many (& i mean MANY) ports that all offer different abilities. So, some work better than others for certain things.
which I corrected by saying the reason it is not used is because it is the common oprt, went on to giveexamples of how to address non-common ports by specifying port, and went further to post a screen shot showing a P2P app can be configured to search and listen on whatever port you want it to.

admitidly you did correct yourself later in the thread, but you are still wrong
Quote:
So, some work better than others for certain things
All port work the same, and at the same speed.

and
Quote:
It's not that it cannot be done, it's just about asking yourself this question "Would you rather be safe or sorry?".
The SSL is a server side directive, no matter what the port number the encrpytion happens at the server and is decrypted by the client, If the question was should I use SSL the would you rather be safe than sorry would be a good answer, however you example suggested that you think SSL simply won't work over port 80, or that it is somehow less secure because port 80 is a well known port for non-encrypted traffic, however I stil say that if the traffic is encypted then it is secure, (no matter what port it is transmitted on).

I thought you were clear, And I've I've misunderstood what you've said then you were clear in my misenterperatation (if you see what I mean).
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Old 10-21-2004, 09:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Port 80

Yea..I can see....Regardless thanks for the acurate info....i apreciate it...
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