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Old 05-05-2005, 08:26 AM   #1
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Thumbs down Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger was enthusiastically received by Apple fans and the international media.

From appraisals like “the most advanced operating system from all times” to “go and buy now a copy of Mac OS X because it’s the best you can get” everybody is praising the new operating system.

All the reviews written for this operating system are full of comparisons with Longhorn. By the way, did you ever read one that didn’t mention and compare Apple’s Spotlight, Automator and Dashboard to what Longhorn might offer?

But Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger fans should be worried that momentarily they know little of what Longhorn will be able to do. And secondly, until Longhorn’s release there are 18 months.

This period is considered as a handicap for Microsoft, but the giant from Redmond has proven many times since its founding that it knows to innovate. So, Longhorn might offer more than what Microsoft’s officials are willing to declare.

Microsoft is too experienced in operating systems not to use this time to come up with a better and more interesting alternative to what Mac OS X 10.4 is offering right now. And where will Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger be 18 months from now? Will Apple be able to keep up with our demands 18 months from now?

Yes, it’s true Apple scored a victory against Microsoft, but let’s not forget Mac OS X defeated an invisible adversary. How will the fight between a complete Longhorn and an 18 months older Mac OS X look like?
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Old 05-05-2005, 08:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

lol, i don't think Microsoft will beat Apple on this! I have used Tiger and Apple have done an excellent job i will give them that. Wasn't Windows XP meant to be excellent and was it?

I will be waiting to see what happeneds
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Old 05-05-2005, 12:23 PM   #3
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

How did Apple score a victory? It hardly has any of the market share, and the OS X 10.4 doesn't work on PC based machines. So no victory really.
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Old 05-05-2005, 01:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

I haven't used Tiger yet, but I think it should be good and it would be nice to see Apple sell a few units.
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Old 05-05-2005, 03:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

Quote:
Originally Posted by technoman
lol, i don't think Microsoft will beat Apple on this! I have used Tiger and Apple have done an excellent job i will give them that. Wasn't Windows XP meant to be excellent and was it?
but isn't every new operating system supposed to be excellent and better than anything else?

Welcome to marketing.

Tiger may be great to use, but by simply releasing it apple have made the challenge easier for microsoft (note; i'm not saying longhorn will be any better) because they have the advantage of openly viewing and using what they are up agianst
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Old 05-05-2005, 06:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

technoman windows xp is 4 years old now
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Old 05-05-2005, 07:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

LOL, I fully agree with Gaincarlo.

Tell me how exactly OS X bet WinXP? Points please.

I'll give you a few. I haven't used OS X Extensively, but when I did, It was a pain in the arse!

1) To close a program, you have to go up to that daft toolbar and click on menu items to close it - what happened to Apples "One click action" thingy??

2) Networking - Dont get me started

3) I wanted to use my bluetooth adapter - I got fed up trying to get it working.

Also, I use my PC every day and have not had a crash in well over a month (On Win2K and XP boxes). MacOS X crashed twice in a weekend. Once in DVD playback and the other when I was simply browsing files.

Oh, and SP1 and SP2 are free of charge along with all the other MS updates. I don't see Apple giving out an OS X.3 or .4 update disk to OS X users withing 4 years use.

Mac users always say how easy Mac OS is to use and how "Plug'n'Play" it is with hardware and networking. Give me a break, you can simply not beat WinXP on this.

£60 for OEM WinXP, or the £100+ for OS X plus the premium for the hardware.

Another point, MS OS's are far technologically advanced in some circumstaces. Woopy Do Bazel, OS X may be a fully multi-user OS (due to Unix Kernal), but please, who is going to use a Mac with two users simultaneously logged on? The only other advantage, that WinXP seems to posses to, is to keep user profiles completely seperate from each other.

I could go on for days, but I'll not.

P.S. Seems like Tiger still is not fully 64Bit, and still does not implement fully "furnished" API's for the graphic hardware properly for it's GUI & other applications. OpenGL is old news. (Hint, the 3D API's is probably reason why not many games or 3D intesive programs are availible for the Mac)

Is Mac OS a match for Win9x, Yip, no problem, but for 2K and XP, noway. It's funny how Mac fanboys always compare to the 10 year old Windows 95 and co but brush off WinXP.

A fact for the rest of the Mac fans, and any others who care, the Mac was not the first OS to implement a WIMP based GUI as many are led to believe. This was 1st implemented by Xerox's software department in the '70's but they never released it due to the law not allowing computer programming code to be patented nor copyrighted. Once the law was change, Apple took advantage straight away!

Loghorn all the way.................................
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Old 05-05-2005, 08:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

Thanks for the back-up... what about XP 64-bit? I thought that Microsoft was gonna release a Windows XP that was 64-bit before Long Horn.

I just don't see how OS X Tiger (copyright violation) is a success because the mainstream PC User can't use it, since it is limited to Mac.

I too have tested out OS X. It isn't very stable. I operate Windows 2000 Professional on my computer. Very incredibly stable operating system. It is also more useful then OS X.
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Old 05-05-2005, 08:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
Thanks for the back-up... what about XP 64-bit? I thought that Microsoft was gonna release a Windows XP that was 64-bit before Long Horn.

I just don't see how OS X Tiger (copyright violation) is a success because the mainstream PC User can't use it, since it is limited to Mac.


Actually I think that last week or so Microsoft showed it off in Florida or somewhere. The only problem is that anti-spyware programs aren't 64-bit so they don't work or something like that. I'm kind of shady on the details. Yea, Microsoft will crush them. The only reason Mac exists is because of Anti-trust Laws.

Yes, Xerox originally owned GUI. Then Apple hired some Xerox programmers to write a GUI for them. Then Microsoft was writing software for Apple at that time (Excel and stuff) and they got a peak. So they decided to hire some Xerox and Apple programmers. Then Microsft out foxed Apple.
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Old 05-05-2005, 09:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

lol, like your sig star. but what about hex? 11 people in the world! hehe :P

I heard also that WinXP 64bit was out. I'm gonna do a few checks on software vendors. From what I remember, Windows XP Professional has been released. Dunno if it is publicly availible for OEM whitebox builders or not. They will probably limit it to a limited amount of companies just like what happened when Windows MCE 2005 was 1st released.

That makes me think, why doesn't Apple release a similar Multi-media OS? I think they would be more successful at that than their desktop OS - just like the Ipod.
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Old 05-06-2005, 08:27 AM   #11
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

i am well aware of Windows XP age !!

Apple will have a better OS then Microsoft just wait and see
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Old 05-06-2005, 08:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

microsoft's longhorn will be crap ... Apple makes ten times better OS then Micro and i believe Apple will win this one.

Did Max OS X come out at around the same time as Windows XP ... well which system is better?

I do believe its Apple ... thank you
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Old 05-06-2005, 08:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

I agree there is no way of telling which operating system will be better, but lets say this. For PC's Windows will be better, and for Mac's, the new mac operating system will be better of course

I do think Microsoft Longhorn is going to get a lot of hype, and I'm worrying it won't live up to its name like other programs/software haven't. For instance, Sims 2 got alot of hype, and playing it, it's nothing as what I expected it to be like over the original...

Anyhow, It will be good, but how good? I guess we'll have to wait and see I just hope they build more on compatibility/stablility (though XP is great for that) and hopefully Windows being able to in someway fix itself, or tell you how you can fix it when something goes wrong. I think this would be an excellent feature if they could do it. Rather than that useless Windows Help feature
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Old 05-06-2005, 09:14 AM   #14
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

Quote:
Originally Posted by technoman
i am well aware of Windows XP age !!

Apple will have a better OS then Microsoft just wait and see
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Hunter
microsoft's longhorn will be crap ... Apple makes ten times better OS then Micro and i believe Apple will win this one.

Did Max OS X come out at around the same time as Windows XP ... well which system is better?

I do believe its Apple ... thank you
I gave points. Please, tell me how they are much better? And I still reckon from my points on my previous post that WinXP is a much better OS. Why get an Apple PC unless it is for specifically for one task? I want to do many things on my PC and the software support for WinXP allows it.

Apple don't have the same resources as MS. How can they always eventually have a better OS? It all takes more money and MS can bring out anything in there OS with there resources. By that time, Apple will have shrunk up and died. Also, Steve Jobs is a hypocrite - My arse has more sense than him!

Karl Hunter, tell me how Loghorn will be crap? At lest it has fully usuablly API's for programmers to use on almost all levels. Apple still can't decide how do support theirs! Longhorns GUI will be fully rendered by Hardware - unlike any Mac OS at the moment. Oh, and guess what, Apple have been using 64bit CPU's for a while now, even got there advertisement band with the G5, but wait??? - wheres the 64bit OS???? They only have extensions on a limited ammount of programs. There doing it again - badging up there OS to compete with the compition when they should rewrite it to be fully 64bit. At least MS has the sense to write a fully 64bit OS with a 32bit capability layer, instead of the opposite. Theres a reason why Apple has a daft 6% market share or summint around that. Even Linux has a bigger share than the Mac OS!!

Go Karl, post some technical facts. And don't send daft ones like WinXP crashes a lot more than Mac OS - Thats Win9x time. WinXP and 2K are rock solid, any crashes are probably due to an idiot not being able to correctly install drivers. And yeah, WinXP was a stonker of an OS when it was released!

The days of the mightly Apple empire are long gone. You can't dispute it. If they were better, they would be more successful, as simple as that.

P.S. On idle, my CPU utilisation sits at 0-2%, on my "borrowed" G4 with OS X, it's at 9-15%. Simply because the CPU has to draw the GUI!
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Old 05-06-2005, 01:42 PM   #15
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erm i have used all the windows oses and and all the mac oses. this being said i would rather use windows 98 than os x. os x is horrible. a simple function in windows takes a minute to do in os x, like to open the display properties in os x first you have to goto the apple menu, control panel, and then wait for it to load..then double click display, in windows all you do is right click the desktop and hit properties. also on the mac its impossible to uninstall a program the right way, on mac os you just delete the program folder, but in windows it does this with a click of a button and cleans out everything the program did or made unlike on the mac...i could go on for hours about this but i wont. simply being said windows is for the power user that likes to complete tasks fast, mac os is for ppl that listen to music, chat, and surf the web. the same ppl that drive the volkswagon bug will probaly be using a mac
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Old 05-06-2005, 03:05 PM   #16
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I'd first like to say Apples maketing department could sell rain coats in the sahara. Most of their claims are misleading. They inovate with a cheque book and bind the whole thing with a collection of deluded eliteist zelots.

Apple never dared try the switch campain over here, and probly because we have an orginisation over here called the ITC, they make sure advertisers dont talk crap on TV and banned the G5 Tower ad stating it was "not proved to be significantly more powerful than existing systems"

I owned an iBook last year because I wanted a legacy free laptop with a decent battery life, I sold it after 3 mounths. I had no problem with the iBook itself, but MacOS is horribly user inefficent.

I have always disliked MacOS since early High School when the whole place had them. It takes so many clicks just to do things, chaning widow needs clicks, you have to go up to the menu all the time for things. You cant access the menus on inactive windows without first bringing the window to the forground. (which you can in windows even though XvsXP seems to be deluded other wise). Its horrible. Networking was also a pain in the ass, I never once seen Randivouz (Bonjour now thay have been sued) do anything to make it easyer.

Two things I did like, spring loaded folders was useful, and the bluetooth support was way better than pre-SP2 XP, but not anymore. I also liked iTunes (if only they made a version for the PC that didnt rape my PC)

But unlike the Apple spin, it was the iBook that was never used, not my PC. My college work relies alot on we based research and trying to flick butween windows all the tim (2 or 3 clicks each time) was just a pain in the ass. I sold it to get my car on the road and never missed it.
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Old 05-06-2005, 09:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Hunter
microsoft's longhorn will be crap ... Apple makes ten times better OS then Micro and i believe Apple will win this one.

Did Max OS X come out at around the same time as Windows XP ... well which system is better?

I do believe its Apple ... thank you
Mac is so much better. Ya ya ya... that's why Mac has what... 2% of the market share? I'm sorry I just had to say that. How can Apple win anything? It didn't win anything with Tiger. Can I use it? No. Can any PC user use it? No. That simple.

But connichri pretty much got to the blatant immaturity in your post. How do you know if it'll be crap? Is it your own biases? Good luck with your 2% marketshare computer. I'll stick to my PC, thank you. Windows XP and even Windows 2000 Professional is vastly better then Max OS X. Windows 2000 is very stable without the fat in Windows XP.

6% of the marketshare? Not really. It is less then 3% now. It keeps falling lol. Apple is so damn expensive too... whether it be their computers, or their MP3 players (overpriced, not as bad as their computers).

And the Mac Mini.. don't even get me started about that... you have to go out and buy the keyboard, monitor and mouse. Before you know it the price will be around $750. But wait! You have to replace the totally obsolete ATI 9250 with 32MB of ram.... that'll push the price through the roof. I heard to get it fully customized the price will be around $1050. The G4... is ugh. The G5 is ugh. It isn't my doing that a single AMD 64 processor can defeat a dual G5 hands down. But back to operating systems.

Apple is like a diesel car with a nice shell. Once your get through the shell it is fugly.

So where are these successes Apple fan boys speak of? I can't seem to find them.
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

Giancarlo, you are my hero........
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Old 05-07-2005, 01:56 AM   #19
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Ugh Longhorn, i have seen it in action, and all i can say is yuck! 10.4 is by far superior.

Who ever said that OS X costs £100+ is speaking pure shit. it is £89. Yes its over $100.

The 2% market share, I think you'll find is rising. With you all mostly being "Windoze" users i wouldn't expect you to have heard of this, but the iPod which is the most successful MP3 player in the World, is showing people just how good the quality of Apples hardware is, so some of them are starting to use Mac instead. Plus you got to bear in mind a hell of a lot of PC's do not have there own users, as they are shoved in all kinds of places to the basic tasks. (i have seen them in super markets to control the till) but mostly you'll find them in offices, because they are cheap and cheap to replace if something goes wrong with them.

Stability, I have had OS X since it came out, and i have only had 1 major crash that happened for no reason, and 3 which were caused by bugs in my programs i was developing, where as when i used Windows XP, it crashed 5 times in 1 hour, while trying to do a CPU intensive task. Hmm really stable. And before you say anything i do a lot of CPU instensive stuff on my Mac, Compiling, Movie Editing, Graphics Design, etc

Networking, now that depends on what your doing, on windows it took me 1 and a half to set up a wireless router for my friend, i'll admit not that bad. On my Mac, all i did was plug in the wireless card, boot my laptop, and the system recognized it, found the network, configured the card and connected it for me. Yea thats really difficult to do, oh my god the effort! Even when setting up a Ethernet based network, yea you need to fill out a few settings to configure it completly, but not loads around 3 fields of information.

A new program in Tiger, called Automater allows regular home users to create simple programs with no code to automate really repetitive tasks. I'm not seeing anything like that on Windows or even planned. You can garuntee if M$ copy it, it will be a botched up job.

Core Data, makes life easier for developers as it lets you visually see your applications Data Model and create it with no code! I'm not even going to go near windoze equivelents.

Windoze also has a big problem with incositency. I have been working in 2 programs recently on windoze while doing some college work, in both programs the Text Areas behaved differently, controls looked different, toolbars behaved differently. Whats up with that? Microsoft too lazy to program in some standard controls to the system so that the developers can use them and have a consitent look?

That new authorisation (i think thats how you spell it) dialog in Longhorn, is prime example of the bad Windoze design. They don't even have the OK and Cancel buttons, instead they have a new control, Green arrow pointing to whitespace. WTF? Plus it does not explain why you are needing to type your password! It'll just popup when you least expect it.

The place where long horn is really innovating is user icons. You can now see your user icon nearly everywhere you go, even where it is not needed. OMG this is cool, i can have my screen space taken up by loads of icons. wow someone struck good at the M$.

The new window appearance, with the semi see through border. Hmm, doesn't windoze use an MDI? Won't that border be off the screen most of the time where you won't see it? That is another prime example of bad design on Microsofts part.

Now i'm not testing windoze longhorn (what the hell kinda crappy name is that anyway? Windows Users Long for Longhorn. :P Or Redmond Start Your Copiers), nor would i even want to, but all my information is from reports and screen shots from M$. Now i know things may change in it as it goes through development.

The fact is Apple are the innovators. Apple were the first to suggest the idea of floppy drives inside a computer, when that happened everyone else where syaing you can't do that! After several years all computers had built in floppy drives. Apple was the first computer company to use something other than beige for computers, windows users all said that it looked hideous, now look, you hardly see beige computers anymore. The transparent plastic the iMac G3 used, is used in hundreds of products across the market. They dropped the floppy drive from computers, Windows users said how will people be able to live with out floppys? PC Vendors are now dropping internal floppy drives.

The fact that the Mac OS only runs on Macs may not be true for much longer, there is rumor that there is a version that can un on x86 machines.

Anyway, no matter how much you try and argue or pursuade a true Mac Fan to switch from Mac and downgrade to windoze, you'll never be able to do it.
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Old 05-07-2005, 02:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: Longhorn might kick Apple in the Tiger

for a newbie... geez mate. nice one. yeah, ive already used mac's new tiger and its pretty sweet. i just love their interface... yeah, mac does lead a lot doesnt it? i wonder what'll they do next?
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