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Old 03-18-2006, 01:39 AM   #61
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Default Re: AMD Dethrowned. Intel Steps up.

Opterons may overclock well, but Intel processors are still the King of the Overclock (if you only think about overclocking).
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Old 03-18-2006, 02:12 AM   #62
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Default Re: AMD Dethrowned. Intel Steps up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinton McLeod

The AM2 has only been "said", but not proven. The performance ratio is a rumor; nothing more.

No one is saying you're supposed to stop and hope for anything. However, it seems you've already stopped and hoped that Conroe will be the end of AMD 6 months before it's released. Explain to me what this hypocritical line of thinking is.



I never said that AM2 would beat Intel. AMD as a whole is who is in question here.

I'm telling people to "shut up and buy now". There is no point waiting 6 months for a processor that may or may not deliver. Intel has done this before. If you're going to wait for the Conroe, then you might as well wait forever.



Even Rahul Sood found something odd with the benchmarks. They were closed systems that featured many problems. You cannot use Intel's benchmark as a way to prove you're right. There's nothing you can say until the processor is released.

And Intel IS scared. If they weren't scared, they wouldn't have released information on a product that isn't supposed to be released in another 6 months.

Me quit being a fanboy? You're one of the biggest Intel fanboys I've seen on here
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You pretty much wanted table scraps and you have them. They say very little about what is to come 6 months from now. So, while you're sitting in your window, staring down a open field filled with flowers and blue skies; just wishing for Conroe, I'll be sitting with my Opteron 165 and OC'ing it straight to kingdom come. Thank you very much
It's the assumption you have with AM2 - but yes I've stopped for Conroe. Because personally, I didn't really have plans to upgrade anytime soon, but Conroe gives me one more reason to wait - since I don't even really have a reason to upgrade right now anyway - in fact, I'm not likely to upgrade even when Conroe first hits the market. And for someone who's looking to upgrade - he has a right to know if something that comes out about 4 months from now is going to be better than his system, for less.

You seem to have been quite infatuated with AMD - since you're banking on AM2 like Intel fans (At the end of Northwood) banked on their own little "upgrade," known as Prescott. Like I said, we need to keep an open mind where AM2 is concerned, but speculating and "hoping" on AM2 is even less than it is for enthusiasts being excited about Conroe.

And no, the idea of waiting "forever" for an upgrade is ridiculous to say the least - great disappointment comes from buying a Willamette only 4 months before Northwood came out - the fact of the matter is, you don't buy something you know is going to get phased out soon. Given AMD's current stance, it is assumed that the purchase of a Conroe will give you something competitive for longer than the 4-5 months (Unlike an AMD purchase now). But everyone is hoping AMD has something up its sleeve - AM2, even though we do not know the exact performance benefit it may provide, is not something a lot of AMD people are waiting on. What we really want to know is about AMD's next architecture - it's next big leap.


Rahul... Oh please, just because one guy who banks on AMD sales has doubts regarding the benchmarks doesn't make them well-founded - everyone is waiting for the Conroe launch benchmarks - the point is, you're telling everyone they're idiots for being excited about new technology. You're not an enthusiast, you're a fanboy under the guise of being a technological enthusiast. You talk negatively about anything Intel and sneer at Conroe-based praise by saying "Wait till it comes out, loser." What if you're wrong then? You'll have spent months being an ignorant ass to enthusiasts and fanboys alike and maybe you'll have to spend the next few months hiding in a dark corner. What if us enthusiasts are wrong and the Conroe isn't as good as it was benchmarked right now? Well then I, for one, will admit I was wrong about my speculation. It would be unfortunate were Intels new architecture, which is such an incredible improvement (In terms of efficiency and "performance per watt") over NetBurst, is not as good as previously shown. A huge company like Intel, does not exhibit the emotion known as "fear," contrary to popular belief. They might however, be frustrated with the fact that NetBurst lost the performance crown and while making this new architecture, Intel has been trying to adjust NetBurst to compete accordingly, to no positive end.

Nah, I will wait for Conroe because my current system easily provides me with the computing experience I require - I'm not made of money, and so I'm not going to become impulsive and spend money on power I don't really need when I know that AMD's architectural response to Conroe - and Conroe itself - are only four months away from production. I'm waiting on information for AMD because I'm looking forward to their answer to Conroe - and personally, AM2 is a farcry and a stop-gap, and not the "answer" I'm looking for. I'm looking forward to the future of AMD. Any true enthusiast looks at Conroe's benchmarks with excitement and optimism - because we care about the power of the hardware - and not the name it is manufactured under. For anyone who shouts out in opposition to Conroe, you have no reason to do so unless you're an AMD fanboy. Because you resent the Intel name - so what? It was a little benchmark that should be taken with a grain of salt - and we're all waiting on Conroe's launch - but you have no reason to call it junk unless you feel your love for AMD is threatened by the launch of a superior processor from the other side.

We all know that Conroe may not deliver the performance it's promising in the benchmarks - but for the sake of a new processor, regardless of brand, improving our computing experience (And gaming experience) - we true enthusiasts choose to look at it in a positive light. If it doesn't deliver? Fine, then the true enthusiasts would stick with AMD processors - if it does, fantastic. We're all going to be watching the launch benchmarks like hawks anyway - so insulting the thought of waiting for what could probably be superior to a current build, is just ignorant.

I would rather have table scraps than to starve waiting for the faint hope of food, fanboy. AM2 has even less to show us than the Conroe benchmarks - we have mere technological speculation for AM2's performance numbers. And a lot of enthusiasts aren't pleased with a move to DDR2, either. It could bring some very positive aspects to the AMD front - but it could bring a negative experience to a lot of average users. The high latency of higher bandwidth DDR2 is not all that positive for an AMD build - and AMD is not bandwidth-starved like NetBurst.
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Old 03-19-2006, 04:21 PM   #63
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Default Re: AMD Dethrowned. Intel Steps up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE5
It's the assumption you have with AM2 - but yes I've stopped for Conroe. Because personally, I didn't really have plans to upgrade anytime soon, but Conroe gives me one more reason to wait - since I don't even really have a reason to upgrade right now anyway - in fact, I'm not likely to upgrade even when Conroe first hits the market. And for someone who's looking to upgrade - he has a right to know if something that comes out about 4 months from now is going to be better than his system, for less.

You seem to have been quite infatuated with AMD - since you're banking on AM2 like Intel fans (At the end of Northwood) banked on their own little "upgrade," known as Prescott. Like I said, we need to keep an open mind where AM2 is concerned, but speculating and "hoping" on AM2 is even less than it is for enthusiasts being excited about Conroe.

And no, the idea of waiting "forever" for an upgrade is ridiculous to say the least - great disappointment comes from buying a Willamette only 4 months before Northwood came out - the fact of the matter is, you don't buy something you know is going to get phased out soon. Given AMD's current stance, it is assumed that the purchase of a Conroe will give you something competitive for longer than the 4-5 months (Unlike an AMD purchase now). But everyone is hoping AMD has something up its sleeve - AM2, even though we do not know the exact performance benefit it may provide, is not something a lot of AMD people are waiting on. What we really want to know is about AMD's next architecture - it's next big leap.


Rahul... Oh please, just because one guy who banks on AMD sales has doubts regarding the benchmarks doesn't make them well-founded - everyone is waiting for the Conroe launch benchmarks - the point is, you're telling everyone they're idiots for being excited about new technology. You're not an enthusiast, you're a fanboy under the guise of being a technological enthusiast. You talk negatively about anything Intel and sneer at Conroe-based praise by saying "Wait till it comes out, loser." What if you're wrong then? You'll have spent months being an ignorant ass to enthusiasts and fanboys alike and maybe you'll have to spend the next few months hiding in a dark corner. What if us enthusiasts are wrong and the Conroe isn't as good as it was benchmarked right now? Well then I, for one, will admit I was wrong about my speculation. It would be unfortunate were Intels new architecture, which is such an incredible improvement (In terms of efficiency and "performance per watt") over NetBurst, is not as good as previously shown. A huge company like Intel, does not exhibit the emotion known as "fear," contrary to popular belief. They might however, be frustrated with the fact that NetBurst lost the performance crown and while making this new architecture, Intel has been trying to adjust NetBurst to compete accordingly, to no positive end.

Nah, I will wait for Conroe because my current system easily provides me with the computing experience I require - I'm not made of money, and so I'm not going to become impulsive and spend money on power I don't really need when I know that AMD's architectural response to Conroe - and Conroe itself - are only four months away from production. I'm waiting on information for AMD because I'm looking forward to their answer to Conroe - and personally, AM2 is a farcry and a stop-gap, and not the "answer" I'm looking for. I'm looking forward to the future of AMD. Any true enthusiast looks at Conroe's benchmarks with excitement and optimism - because we care about the power of the hardware - and not the name it is manufactured under. For anyone who shouts out in opposition to Conroe, you have no reason to do so unless you're an AMD fanboy. Because you resent the Intel name - so what? It was a little benchmark that should be taken with a grain of salt - and we're all waiting on Conroe's launch - but you have no reason to call it junk unless you feel your love for AMD is threatened by the launch of a superior processor from the other side.

We all know that Conroe may not deliver the performance it's promising in the benchmarks - but for the sake of a new processor, regardless of brand, improving our computing experience (And gaming experience) - we true enthusiasts choose to look at it in a positive light. If it doesn't deliver? Fine, then the true enthusiasts would stick with AMD processors - if it does, fantastic. We're all going to be watching the launch benchmarks like hawks anyway - so insulting the thought of waiting for what could probably be superior to a current build, is just ignorant.

I would rather have table scraps than to starve waiting for the faint hope of food, fanboy. AM2 has even less to show us than the Conroe benchmarks - we have mere technological speculation for AM2's performance numbers. And a lot of enthusiasts aren't pleased with a move to DDR2, either. It could bring some very positive aspects to the AMD front - but it could bring a negative experience to a lot of average users. The high latency of higher bandwidth DDR2 is not all that positive for an AMD build - and AMD is not bandwidth-starved like NetBurst.


You're very quick to point fingers and call people fanboys. I never once stated that AM2 will be the "say all do all". I just said to wait until the Conroe is released before declaring it the winner. Also, if you're going to upgrade, you might as well do it now and save yourself the disappointment of a processor that may or may not be the fastest out there.
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Old 03-19-2006, 04:33 PM   #64
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Default Re: AMD Dethrowned. Intel Steps up.

http://anandtech.com/weblog/default.aspx#279
There is Anand's take on the AM2. Its good reading actually. I just stumbled upon this a couple days ago. I was VERY surprised.
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Old 03-19-2006, 04:34 PM   #65
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Default Re: AMD Dethrowned. Intel Steps up.

It's most likely going to surpass AMD's current solutions - everyone is waiting for Conroe to be released - but if those benchmarks ring true, it will beat the AMD64 without any issues.

I'm not going to upgrade when the next best solution could quite possibly be present 4-5 months from now - if I needed the upgrade, then sure, but since I'm only looking for enhanced performance and a personal entrance to dual-core - I have no reason to purchase an AMD at this time. Which is exactly what I mean - I'd most likely purchase an Opteron solution since I feel that it provides the best price/performance ratio on the market - I feel that it would provide me with the kind of performance I strive for in a system. And if Conroe doesn't live up to these benchmarks, that is the direction I will take - but I'd rather give Intel the benefit of the doubt until it launches.

I don't personally have great expectations of AM2 - but I'm waiting for it to come out. I don't think I'd be the only person to find it disappointing if Conroe (Being 14 stages, 4 issue wide) were to not perform very similar to these current benchmarks we've seen. It's not unfair to judge a new architecture the likely winner before it's launched - like you said, it's a little pre-emptive, but isn't it only natural to assume the next AMD64 architecture would be better, and superior to Conroe? If I saw a set of AMD benchmarks I would think the same thing - that Conroe is about to get smashed. (Were the benchmarks to point in this direction) It's too early to be saying that, but it's an assumption I have regarding new architectures. (Although as we all saw with the first P4s, the later architecture isn't always better - but Core is very different to it's NetBurst brethren)
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Old 03-19-2006, 06:18 PM   #66
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Default Re: AMD Dethrowned. Intel Steps up.

before i start on my few paragraphs of opinions and information, i give props 2 SSE5 for making good points and giving some people what i feel is a peice of his own medicine, without being too biased

I definatly agree with most, conroe is something to look forward 2. From what the benchmarks say the conroe will most likly out perform AMD's best, so why not look forward to it? I personally am an Intel fan but i agree in most cases AMD has a lead over intel. in the competition of computers, there is never a lead that lasts to long imo. AMD has had the lead for a while and now intel's new architechure will probably overtake AMD's for a while. simply put.

as for the AM2 socket, i don't know a whole lot about it but it doesn't sound like a major step as does conroe. it's got full support for DDR2? woot? the new conroe system will have the same thing so i don't see much lime light for the AM2. i do think that it will put more pressure on intel to bring out their best though, which i also love. with that pressure the war the we all love, war for the best price to performance, will help lower costs of processors, and beat out the best from both company's. so all i ask is why are some of you(main directed 2 quinton) trying 2 put down the conroe? it's going 2 be the next wave of leet computer parts that is going 2 give us even better performance than what we have!and even if the conroe doesn't end up surpassing AMD, or if AMD brings something 2 overthrow conroe, then i still feel their should be props giving 2 intel for pulling out a processor that way outdoes their current one.

one more thing i would like 2 mention 2 quinton, i don't mean to direct alot of negitivity to u, but i just don't like you much. u seen to try and put down every ones feelings on the new proessor as if they are nothing. the conroe is going 2 be a good processor, get over it. also something i highly recommend is changing ur font color, red often promotes anger and i notice it every time i read your information. so please don't take this as flamming, but more as advice
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Old 03-19-2006, 07:56 PM   #67
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Default Re: AMD Dethrowned. Intel Steps up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseMan
before i start on my few paragraphs of opinions and information, i give props 2 SSE5 for making good points and giving some people what i feel is a peice of his own medicine, without being too biased

I definatly agree with most, conroe is something to look forward 2. From what the benchmarks say the conroe will most likly out perform AMD's best, so why not look forward to it? I personally am an Intel fan but i agree in most cases AMD has a lead over intel. in the competition of computers, there is never a lead that lasts to long imo. AMD has had the lead for a while and now intel's new architechure will probably overtake AMD's for a while. simply put.

as for the AM2 socket, i don't know a whole lot about it but it doesn't sound like a major step as does conroe. it's got full support for DDR2? woot? the new conroe system will have the same thing so i don't see much lime light for the AM2. i do think that it will put more pressure on intel to bring out their best though, which i also love. with that pressure the war the we all love, war for the best price to performance, will help lower costs of processors, and beat out the best from both company's. so all i ask is why are some of you(main directed 2 quinton) trying 2 put down the conroe? it's going 2 be the next wave of leet computer parts that is going 2 give us even better performance than what we have!and even if the conroe doesn't end up surpassing AMD, or if AMD brings something 2 overthrow conroe, then i still feel their should be props giving 2 intel for pulling out a processor that way outdoes their current one.

one more thing i would like 2 mention 2 quinton, i don't mean to direct alot of negitivity to u, but i just don't like you much. u seen to try and put down every ones feelings on the new proessor as if they are nothing. the conroe is going 2 be a good processor, get over it. also something i highly recommend is changing ur font color, red often promotes anger and i notice it every time i read your information. so please don't take this as flamming, but more as advice

Your opinions have been noted, but in almost every message forum I post in, my text is red. It's my persona.

I'm looking forward to the Conroe, but there's just not a lot on it. I'm sure it's going to be a great processor, but until it's released, there's not much we can say. That's the truth.

As far as the AM2 information. There are mixed reviews on it. None of it is really accurate. Some say they notice a 10 percent bump, while others are the otherway around. I can't say much about AM2 except to just wait until it's released.

If the Conroe is what it's said to be, then it's about time. I'll applaud Intel in their efforts of surpassing AMD after AMD held the crown for 3 years in a row. Until that day comes, we must understand that AMD is still the leader.

I don't want to wait 6 months to upgrade. I've waited far too long. I want my power now and not in 6 months. Call me impatient, but there's no guarantee that I'll even be ALIVE in 6 months.
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:24 AM   #68
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Default Re: AMD Dethrowned. Intel Steps up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinton McLeod

Your opinions have been noted, but in almost every message forum I post in, my text is red. It's my persona.

I'm looking forward to the Conroe, but there's just not a lot on it. I'm sure it's going to be a great processor, but until it's released, there's not much we can say. That's the truth.

As far as the AM2 information. There are mixed reviews on it. None of it is really accurate. Some say they notice a 10 percent bump, while others are the otherway around. I can't say much about AM2 except to just wait until it's released.

If the Conroe is what it's said to be, then it's about time. I'll applaud Intel in their efforts of surpassing AMD after AMD held the crown for 3 years in a row. Until that day comes, we must understand that AMD is still the leader.

I don't want to wait 6 months to upgrade. I've waited far too long. I want my power now and not in 6 months. Call me impatient, but there's no guarantee that I'll even be ALIVE in 6 months.
well i'm glad your input has become less biased. i am guessing your ready 2 upgrade? the reason i'm very willing 2 wait is because i've got a computer that runs great besides my crappy all in wonder x600 pro which i plan on upgrading and i was going 2 wait 2 upgrade until vista ships. so really if u wanna upgrade now go ahead, i personally shall wait until vista ships 2 do something, plus the prices of dual core processors will go down
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Old 03-20-2006, 12:23 PM   #69
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Default Re: AMD Dethrowned. Intel Steps up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE5
It's most likely going to surpass AMD's current solutions - everyone is waiting for Conroe to be released - but if those benchmarks ring true, it will beat the AMD64 without any issues.

I'm not going to upgrade when the next best solution could quite possibly be present 4-5 months from now - if I needed the upgrade, then sure, but since I'm only looking for enhanced performance and a personal entrance to dual-core - I have no reason to purchase an AMD at this time. Which is exactly what I mean - I'd most likely purchase an Opteron solution since I feel that it provides the best price/performance ratio on the market - I feel that it would provide me with the kind of performance I strive for in a system. And if Conroe doesn't live up to these benchmarks, that is the direction I will take - but I'd rather give Intel the benefit of the doubt until it launches.

I don't personally have great expectations of AM2 - but I'm waiting for it to come out. I don't think I'd be the only person to find it disappointing if Conroe (Being 14 stages, 4 issue wide) were to not perform very similar to these current benchmarks we've seen. It's not unfair to judge a new architecture the likely winner before it's launched - like you said, it's a little pre-emptive, but isn't it only natural to assume the next AMD64 architecture would be better, and superior to Conroe? If I saw a set of AMD benchmarks I would think the same thing - that Conroe is about to get smashed. (Were the benchmarks to point in this direction) It's too early to be saying that, but it's an assumption I have regarding new architectures. (Although as we all saw with the first P4s, the later architecture isn't always better - but Core is very different to it's NetBurst brethren)
Yeah its going to beat AMD's current solutions no doubt cause its a next gen processor but dont forget the AM2 socket thats first step into their new line of processors which we dont know yet but later will.
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Old 03-20-2006, 12:37 PM   #70
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Default Re: AMD Dethrowned. Intel Steps up.

yea thats actually brings a new idea 2 the table, the AM2 being the stepping stone 2 AMD's new solution, i mean it is comming out 3 months or so before conroe, eather way i am thinkin intel is going 2 have the lead for a while, in the mean time good job AMD for their current lead
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