Go Back   Computer Forums > General Computing > Hardware
Click Here to Login
Join Computer forums Today

Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-07-2005, 09:09 PM   #1
Fully Optimized
-Paul-'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,242
Send a message via AIM to -Paul- Send a message via MSN to -Paul-
Default 32 bit vs 64 bit

can you give details on what is the difference between 32 bit and 64 bit processors what are the advantages of one over the other and does intel offer 64 bit processors?
oh and does 64 bit work with windows xp?

-Paul- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2005, 09:16 PM   #2
In Runtime
elmonomalo's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 307

64 bit runs more smooth then 32 bit but is not to its highest potential yet... 64 bits can run windows 32 bit and a special version of win xp, 64 bit. the main difference is the rate at which data is transferred(the 64 bit goes about twice as fast). The 64 bit is not the highest potential due to most apps being 32 bit today.

To make a long story short... 64 bit processors run smoother and faster but they don't make too much of a difference yet due to many applications being 32 bit.

"Power never takes a back step - only in the face of more power
-Malcolm X
elmonomalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2005, 09:29 PM   #3
Golden Master
alvino's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,967
Send a message via AIM to alvino
Default Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I'm sure Lord Kalthorn will gladly help you with that.

Intel does offer a so-called 64-bit version of the Pentium 4. It's the Pentium 4 6xx series.

No, Windows XP is not 64-bit. It is 32-bit. Why does the Athlon 64 and the Pentium 4 6xx work with it? Because they're also 32-bit at the same time and they work with 32-bit programs. So when Windows Vista (it should be 64-bit) and other 64-bit programs come out (like the 64-but version of FarCry etc.) you'll be ready for the 64-bit era.
alvino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2005, 11:47 PM   #4
Golden Master
jac006's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,810
Send a message via AIM to jac006
Default Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

64 bit computing is:

In computer science, 64-bit is an adjective used to describe integers, memory addresses or other data units that are at most 64 bits (8 octets) wide, or to describe CPU and ALU architectures based on registers, address buses, or data buses of that size.

As of 2004, 64-bit CPUs are common in servers, and have recently been introduced to the (previously 32-bit) mainstream personal computer arena in the form of the AMD64, EM64T, and PowerPC 970 (or "G5") processor architectures.

Though a CPU may be 64-bit internally, its external data bus or address bus may have a different size, either larger or smaller, and the term is often used to describe the size of these buses as well. For instance, many current machines with 32-bit processors use 64-bit buses, and may occasionally be referred to as "64-bit" for this reason. The term may also refer to the size of an instruction in the computer's instruction set or to any other item of data. Without further qualification, however, a computer architecture described as "64-bit" generally has integer registers that are 64 bits wide and thus directly supports dealing both internally and externally with 64-bit "chunks" of data.

Registers in a processor are generally divided into three groups: integer, floating point, and other. In all common general purpose processors, only the integer registers are capable of storing pointer values (that is, an address of some data in memory). The non-integer registers cannot be used to store pointers for the purpose of reading or writing to memory, and therefore cannot be used to bypass any memory restrictions imposed by the size of the integer registers.

Nearly all common general purpose processors (with the notable exception of the ARM and most 32-bit MIPS implementations) have integrated floating point hardware, which may or may not use 64 bit registers to hold data for processing. For example, the AMD64 architecture defines a SSE unit which includes 16 128-bit wide registers, and the traditional x87 floating point unit defines 8 64-bit registers in a stack configuration. By contrast, the 64-bit Alpha family of processors defines 32 64-bit wide floating point registers in addition to its 32 64-bit wide integer registers.

Most CPUs are currently (c. 2003) designed so that the contents of a single integer register can store the address (location) of any datum in the computer's virtual memory. Therefore, the total number of addresses in the virtual memory the total amount of data the computer can keep in its working area is determined by the width of these registers. Beginning in the 1960s with the IBM System 360, then (amongst many others) the DEC VAX minicomputer in the 1970s, and then with the Intel 80386 in the mid-1980s, a de facto consensus developed that 32 bits was a convenient register size. A 32-bit register meant that 232 addresses, or 4 gigabytes of RAM memory, could be referenced. At the time these architectures were devised, 4 gigabytes of memory was so far beyond the typical quantities available in installations that this was considered to be enough "headroom" for addressing. 4-gigabyte addresses were considered an appropriate size to work with for another important reason: 4 billion integers are enough to assign unique references to most physically countable things in applications like databases.

However, with the march of time and the continual reductions in the cost of memory (see Moore's Law), by the early 1990s installations with quantities of RAM approaching 4 gigabytes began to appear, and the use of virtual memory spaces greater than the four gigabyte limit became desirable for handling certain types of problems. In response, a number of companies began releasing new families of chips with 64-bit architectures, initially for supercomputers and high-end server machines. 64-bit computing has gradually drifted down to the personal computer desktop, with Apple Computer's PowerMac desktop line as of 2003 and its iMac home computer line (as of 2004) both using 64-bit processors (Apple calls it the G5 chip), and AMD's "AMD64" architecture (and Intel's "EM64T") becoming common in high-end PCs.

32 vs 64 bit

A change from a 32-bit to a 64-bit architecture is a fundamental alteration, as most operating systems must be extensively modified to take advantage of the new architecture. Other software must also be ported to use the new capabilities; older software is usually supported through either a hardware compatibility mode (in which the new processors support an older 32-bit instruction set as well as the new modes), through software emulation, or by the actual implementation of a 32-bit processor core within the 64-bit processor die (as with the Itanium2 processors from Intel). One significant exception to this is the AS/400, whose software runs on a virtual ISA which is implemented in low-level software. This software, called TIMI, is all that has to be rewritten to move the entire OS and all software to a new platform, such as when IBM transitioned their line from 32-bit POWER to 64-bit POWER.

While 64-bit architectures indisputably make working with huge data sets in applications such as digital video, scientific computing, and large databases easier, there has been considerable debate as to whether they or their 32-bit compatibility modes will be faster than comparably-priced 32-bit systems for other tasks.

Theoretically, some programs could well be faster in 32-bit mode. Instructions for 64-bit computing take up more storage space than the earlier 32-bit ones, so it is possible that some 32-bit programs will fit into the CPU's high-speed cache while equivalent 64-bit programs will not. However, in applications like scientific computing, the data being processed often fits naturally in 64-bit chunks, and will be faster on a 64-bit architecture because the CPU will be designed to process such information directly rather than requiring the program to perform multiple steps. Such assessments are complicated by the fact that in the process of designing the new 64-bit architectures, the instruction set designers have also taken the opportunity to make other changes that address some of the deficiencies in older instruction sets by adding new performance-enhancing facilities (such as the extra registers in the AMD64 design).

Pros and cons

A common misconception is that 64-bit architectures are no better than 32-bit architectures unless the computer has more than 4 GB of memory. This is not entirely true:

* Some operating systems reserve portions of each process' address space for OS use, effectively reducing the total address space available for mapping memory for user programs. For instance, Windows XP DLLs and userland OS components are mapped into each process' address space, leaving only 2 or 3 GB (depending on the settings) address space available under Windows XP, even if the computer has 4 GB of RAM. This restriction is not present in 64-bit Windows.
* Memory mapping of files is becoming more dangerous with 32-bit architectures, especially with the introduction of relatively cheap recordable DVD technology. A 4 GB file is no longer uncommon, and such large files cannot be memory mapped easily to 32-bit architectures. This is an issue, as memory mapping remains one of the most efficient disk-to-memory methods, when properly implemented by the OS.

The main disadvantage of 64-bit architectures is that relative to 32-bit architectures the same data occupies slightly more space in memory (due to swollen pointers and possibly other types and alignment padding). This increases the memory requirements of a given process, and can have implications for efficient processor cache utilisation. Maintaining a partial 32-bit data model is one way to handle this, and is in general reasonably effective.

Converting application software written in a high-level language from a 32-bit architecture to a 64-bit architecture varies in difficulty. One common recurring problem is that some programmers assume that pointers (variables that store memory addresses) have the same length as some other data type. Programmers assume they can transfer quantities between these data types without losing information. Those assumptions happen to be true on some 32 bit machines (and even some 16 bit machines), but they are no longer true on 64 bit machines. The C programming language and its descendant C++ make it particularly easy to make this sort of mistake.

To avoid this mistake in C and C++, the sizeof() operator can be used to determine the size of these primitive types if decisions based on their size need to be made at run time. Also, limits.h in the C99 standard and climits in the C++ standard give more helpful info; sizeof() only returns the number of bytes, which is sometimes misleading, because the size of a byte is also not well defined in C or C++. One needs to be careful to use the ptrdiff_t type (in the standard header <stddef.h>) when doing pointer arithmetic; too much code incorrectly uses "int" or "long" instead.

Hope this helps... duron is for servers, xp is the obselete amd cpu, and the new 64's are the faster ones. the best processors for gaming are amd's, just because of the processing capabilites, faster fsb speeds, and 64 bit architecture... yeha.
Macbook Pro and Logitech z5500s. All you really need.
jac006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2005, 08:24 PM   #5
Lord Kalthorn's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Britain
Posts: 13,293
Send a message via MSN to Lord Kalthorn

Too true Jac! Too true

Just as 128-bit Computing will be so much better than 64-bit. In time... in time... shown quite well in Dual-Channel RAM setups, where with a 64-bit Processor you do actually get 128-bit Transfer.
A Knight is sworn to Honour. His heart knows only Virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His might upholds the Weak. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the Wicked.
Lord Kalthorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2005, 07:01 AM   #6
Daemon Poster
connchri's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,025
Send a message via MSN to connchri
Default Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Jac, You mentioned that one of the disadventages of 64bit CPU is the increased ammount of cache needed for 64bit code. Logic would suggest that each line of 64bit code addressed in cache would take up twice the size of the equivelent 32bit code. Although this would not entirely be due to the length of the code itself but more to the way the cache would be addressed. If this is true, then would it not worry AMD users of 512KB Cache Athlon 64s? as the latest Intel offerings have 2MB cache. This is bound to have a dramatic effect on performance between the two CPUs.

Even the cheapest P4 630 has the 2MB cache, with only AMD have 1MB on it's high range San Diago and FX series, and in all seriousness, there is not a huge gap between the performance of the low range P4's and Athlon 64s, infact, between the P4 630 and the Athlon Venice 3000+, the P4 pwns it in everything apart from gaming (in which the frame limit difference is only about 7%).

The introduction of fully 64bit OS's and 64bit applications may prove to be an interesting turnaround as far as AMD dominance of performance is concerend, as well as the inclusion of multithreaded applications. The only AMD multithreaded CPU's being the Athlon 64x2 still having half the thread capacity of a dual core P4.
Delta: "What's wrong Chris?? Chris: "I miss my old Cyrix"
connchri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2005, 02:01 AM   #7
Golden Master
MikeReiner's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,053
Send a message via AIM to MikeReiner Send a message via MSN to MikeReiner Send a message via Yahoo to MikeReiner
Default Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

my understanding, in short, 64 bit CPUs give 32 bit programs much more breathing space, and can indeed lead to smoother gameplay, but it is not that noticable.
once microsoft released a 64 BIT windows and more and more games start utilizing 64 bit, then you will notice a BIG difference between a 32 bit and 64 bit cpu.
for the time, I use 32 bit intel processors, but once 64 bit gets out, I may move to amd64, i'm not sure.
MikeReiner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2005, 12:15 AM   #8
In Runtime
Stalker's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 245
Default Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit


Im a programmer, And If i get a good computer ill probly be a gamer too

What processor is best for me? I like watching music and listening to videos all the time too, So hould I use a 64 bit?
Stalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2005, 01:16 AM   #9
Golden Master
jac006's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,810
Send a message via AIM to jac006
Default Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

Amd of course... 64 bit is the future... you'll want it... intel is already regretting their pent. 4's and d's... the M is their best cpu... but get amd... you'll live to say that you made a good choice...
Macbook Pro and Logitech z5500s. All you really need.
jac006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2005, 04:16 PM   #10
In Runtime
killzoneman0's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 339
Send a message via AIM to killzoneman0
Default Re: 32 bit vs 64 bit

where can i get the 64bit version of windows xp and what is it called?

killzoneman0 is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0