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Old 09-28-2016, 07:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is this unethical hacking?

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Originally Posted by berry120 View Post
Not really - they're not used by the public at all and haven't been for decades, but hospitals / ambulances certainly still used them a few years ago - they could be intercepted (and theoretically decoded) very easily with an SDR.
Hospitals and ambulances in the US are using laptops and GPS to keep track of events.
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Is this unethical hacking?

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Hospitals and ambulances in the US are using laptops and GPS to keep track of events.
And how do these laptops communicate if they happen to be in an area with no phone signal?
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: Is this unethical hacking?

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And how do these laptops communicate if they happen to be in an area with no phone signal?
This is America. there is always a phone signal. Even at my mountain house in the middle of nowhere 10 miles from the nearest little general store. Besides which they also carry radios and can transmit and receive data that way as well.
So, tell us again how a pager works without a phone signal?
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Old 09-29-2016, 11:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: Is this unethical hacking?

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This is America. there is always a phone signal. Even at my mountain house in the middle of nowhere 10 miles from the nearest little general store. Besides which they also carry radios and can transmit and receive data that way as well.
You receiving network in your mountain house does not equate to the whole of the US having phone coverage...
Quote:
So, tell us again how a pager works without a phone signal?
Completely different frequencies, completely different networks, completely different protocols. Look up POCSAG networks if you're interested.

Afraid I'm not going to entertain you any more in your attempt at bashing the UK, we've drifted OT enough. Heading back to the original point however, the following might help to correct your view that intercepting anything over public frequencies is fair game:

https://www.hotforsecurity.com/blog/...tor-16745.html
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: Is this unethical hacking?

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And how do these laptops communicate if they happen to be in an area with no phone signal?
if it's anything like the UK using a separate network with separate frequencies etc.

(the UK emergency network is called Tetra and is operated by Vodaphone.)

it's not a standard phone network, it's a private cell per area.

(and that's fine because emergency staff only work on a per area basis.
they also have regular cell phones on vehicles...


So, assuming an EMT from Birmingham is in and around the Birmingham area (UK) they will get radio traffic on their local radio.
If they take a patient to London their radio will drop out as soon as they are out of range, but they will be contactable by other means (i.e. cell phone)


Emergency services don't rely on regular cell coverage (where high frequency = low reach from masts), generally they use UHF radio, distance is pretty good on those. when low frequency = greater coverage.









in regards to your friend.
scanning for APs is legal

(for example how would you know the best channel to setup your own wireless AP, if you didn't do a site survey first)


ethics depends on intent.

if he scans for weak devices or networks with the intent of stealing information, or connecting to phones to use their data to preserve his, then no it is not ethical.
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Old 09-29-2016, 03:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: Is this unethical hacking?

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You receiving network in your mountain house does not equate to the whole of the US having phone coverage...

Completely different frequencies, completely different networks, completely different protocols. Look up POCSAG networks if you're interested.

Afraid I'm not going to entertain you any more in your attempt at bashing the UK, we've drifted OT enough. Heading back to the original point however, the following might help to correct your view that intercepting anything over public frequencies is fair game:

https://www.hotforsecurity.com/blog/...tor-16745.html
You might want to look at the United States cell phone coverage maps 99% of the u.s. population has cell coverage the other 1% can use other networks like the pagers do.
Another thing to think about is if there is no cell phone coverage how is someone going to call for medical assistance to that location more likely they will go into the hospital themselves.
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: Is this unethical hacking?

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You might want to look at the United States cell phone coverage maps 99% of the u.s. population has cell coverage the other 1% can use other networks like the pagers do.
I did check the phone coverage maps and noticed there were several regions that didn't have any coverage at all. Granted, most are in areas that aren't populated, but it still means that a phone signal won't always be available wherever you are in the US...

Genuinely out of interest, what other networks to the 1% use if there's no pager network?

Quote:
Another thing to think about is if there is no cell phone coverage how is someone going to call for medical assistance to that location more likely they will go into the hospital themselves.
That depends on a number of factors, but there's a number of alternatives that might be available to get help to them without going to a hospital:

- If they're part of a group, someone else from the group can make their way back to an area with coverage and call for help from there;
- In the UK, there's designated frequencies on the amateur spectrum that can be used to report emergencies (Raynet) - someone capable of receiving and passing on your message to the emergency services will call for help. I imagine there must be a similar setup in the US.
- If venturing out alone and sensible, the person should have left their route and a call out with someone who can then raise the alarm if they don't back on time.
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Old 10-01-2016, 04:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Is this unethical hacking?

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I did check the phone coverage maps and noticed there were several regions that didn't have any coverage at all. Granted, most are in areas that aren't populated, but it still means that a phone signal won't always be available wherever you are in the US...

Genuinely out of interest, what other networks to the 1% use if there's no pager network?


That depends on a number of factors, but there's a number of alternatives that might be available to get help to them without going to a hospital:

- If they're part of a group, someone else from the group can make their way back to an area with coverage and call for help from there;
- In the UK, there's designated frequencies on the amateur spectrum that can be used to report emergencies (Raynet) - someone capable of receiving and passing on your message to the emergency services will call for help. I imagine there must be a similar setup in the US.
- If venturing out alone and sensible, the person should have left their route and a call out with someone who can then raise the alarm if they don't back on time.
Here's something to chew on for you.

Quote:
Any certified ambulance must have operational communications equipment in accordance with part 800.22(e) which states, "ALL AMBULANCES SHALL: have two-way voice communication equipment to provide communication with hospital emergency departments directly or through a dispatcher, throughout the duration of an ambulance call within their primary operating area. It shall be licensed by the Federal Communications Commission in other than the Citizens Band. Alternative Communication systems are subject to the approval of the department as being equivalent in capability."

Any vehicle identified as an Emergency Ambulance Service Vehicle (EASV) must have operational communications equipment in accordance with part 800.26(c) which states, "Any emergency ambulance service vehicle (other than an ambulance) shall be equipped and supplied with: A two-way voice communications enabling direct communication with the agency dispatcher and the responding ambulance vehicle on frequencies other than citizens band."

800.22(e) means, any service (Ambulance or ALS First Response) which is authorized by a REMAC to provide Advanced Life Support (ALS) care shall have communications capability to access and use a REMAC approved communications system for the purpose of establishing On Line Medical Control and conversing directly with an approved Medical Control point at any location where a patient is to be received within the service's authorized territory.

800.26(c) means, any EASV or ALS First Response Vehicle shall have communications capability to; communicate directly with Medical Control to insure appropriate patient care, maintain communications with the incident dispatch point, and communicate with any ambulance or personnel to which it is responding to provide additional EMS assistance including ALS intercept. These communications capabilities need to be operable throughout the service's authorized territory.

Any service which is a participant in a local or regional preplan or contract for mutual aid, ALS Intercept, MCI or Disaster Response, shall have communications capability to; contact or be contacted by the dispatch control point, incident site, field command, county or regional control center and/or other services in accordance with the provisions of said plan.

Each agency or service shall hold a valid FCC issued license for the operation of communications equipment on frequencies used by the service OR hold a valid "Letter of Authority" from an appropriately licensed entity to operate communications equipment on frequencies used by the authorizing service.

For the purposes of this policy, communication systems include land mobil two-way, trunked, commercial and public safety systems under Part 90 of the FCC Rules and Regulations and cellular phone systems authorized by the Federal Communications Commission. Specifically excluded from use are CB, GMRS, Marine, all FCC designated "unlicensed" radio services and other non Part 90 Radio Services.
There is a lot more information about it on the internet, provided you have access. lol

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Old 10-01-2016, 04:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is this unethical hacking?

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Here's something to chew on for you.



There is a lot more information about it on the internet, provided you have access. lol

I assume that was your roundabout way of admitting that you were wrong, and ambulances do use other means of communicating when mobile phones aren't available?
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Old 10-01-2016, 04:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is this unethical hacking?

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I assume that was your roundabout way of admitting that you were wrong, and ambulances do use other means of communicating when mobile phones aren't available?
No it supports that they are able to use other methods of communicating...you asked how those laptops communicate when there is no phone signal. Did you forget that already?

Here, let me refresh your memory:
Quote:
And how do these laptops communicate if they happen to be in an area with no phone signal?
Let me highlight where I said there were alternative methods for you AGAIN:
Quote:
This is America. there is always a phone signal. Even at my mountain house in the middle of nowhere 10 miles from the nearest little general store. Besides which they also carry radios and can transmit and receive data that way as well.
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