Science Vs. Religion | Black Vs. White | A vs. Z

[S0ULphIRE]

Is it because of our sense compassion? Empathy? If so, one may very well make the argument that a race is best served without such features, but would this life be worth living without such a dichotomous experience that these emotions (along with all others) provide?

Isn't empathy logical though? i.e. why do we say empathy is a good thing? I think it comes down to what we consider "right" to do, and there lies the old "is/ought" problem.

To take the child overboad example: pain/death *is* something I wish to avoid, that person *is* no different from me, therefore we *ought* to save that child from pain/death. It's a bunch of logical statements that end in a value judgement.
IMO empathy is great and logically sound. It's just not as clear what our value judgement should be in more complicated situations.

So yes, a bunch of people might immediately scream to turn the boat around, but just because I don't doesn't mean I don't have any empathy for the child. My value judgement just takes in more than the immediate "there's a child overboard" problem. And in that particular sense, *absolutely* yes 100% I think we'd be better off without emotion, or rather without being so prone to being blinded/controlled by emotion.

Leaving aside the physical feeling of actually experiencing emotions, the way I see emotion is maybe as helpful pointers to what values are being triggered subconsciously.

It sound like you're talking about the NWO.

Well, yes kind of but again, the difference is that the elitist group is an AI who represents everyone in this case. One for all and all for one

 

[iPwn]

I can see the case for empathy being made as a logical one, but somehow I think it goes beyond that. Describe love as a logical function. Now don't get me wrong, I've heard that argument, and it does make sense, but it certainly doesn't feel logical at all.

For anyone who's not heard that argument; the person you love is fulfilling something which is releasing chemicals within you. They are creating chemical reactions. That person could be replaced and as long as the replacement continues to produces the same reactions, your brain would never know the differences. Almost a solipsistic argument, if you will... loosely.

I'm not sure if this is true; but I remember being told a story when I was young of a railroad worker who took his son to work one day. His son was playing around on the tracks and became trapped on the tracks of an approaching train. His father was faced with a choice. He could switch the tracks and save his, but this would derail a passenger train and save one life, his son's. He performed his job and his son died. Imagine making that decision. Again the fascinating thing about us humans is that you have examples of extreme compassion, extreme justice and extreme love, and yet not too far away you have examples of the opposite end of the spectrum taking place.

I believe the ladder part of your statement is far more accurate of an assessment in that our emotions need be helpful hints. "Wow, that makes me angry... now why is that?" Rather than going out and finding a way to exact revenge in the heat of the moment.

If you were to ask someone if they thought it was a good idea to take heroin on a daily basis, or before an important conversation, or just at random, I'm sure you can guess their response as anyone reading this could. That same group would probably be surprised to learn that your emotions work the exact same way as heroin. The peptides enter each cell and change the chemical makeup, making each cell behave differently. Find it hard concentrating when you're angry? Wonder why? That's the heroin talking...errr.. anger I mean.

"blinded/controlled by our emotions" is an accurate description of many a people.

The more and more I consider all of this, the more I'm reminded of a quote from a study about the paradoxical nature of change and human behavior. I can't quickly find the direct quote, but it's something to the effect of "Our perception of there being a problem, is the problem" and went on to add that "therefore, any attempted solution only complicates the fabricated problem"

Perhaps everything we're describing is simply the human experience and there is no "problem" to be "solved". The storm will come to reset the board pieces back to the start and we'll all play the game again.

 

[Celery]

This is starting to go over my head as I can't tell you much about the nature of people. I guess it all depends on who knows who.

Be among the strangers and I think the empathy is low.

 

[Smart_Guy]

This is starting to go over my head as I can't tell you much about the nature of people. I guess it all depends on who knows who.

Be among the strangers and I think the empathy is low.

Just started to?

Lucky you!

 

[iPwn]

Be among the strangers and I think the empathy is low.

What I believe most don't understand is that this is a false perception. At least in the sense that, we should have more empathy than we do. I must admit though that this is my perception of a problem.

Most everyone on the planet would agree that Hitler was a "bad" guy. Everyone on the planet has/had the capacity to become Adolf Hitler. We all have the capacity to become everyone we see around us in passing. The beggar you see on the street and scoff, that's you under the right set of circumstances. If your home gets taken by the bank and you get fired, all of the sudden out of food and your friends turn their back on you... what do you do now? You'd probably be left to begging for spare change. Perhaps even "turning tricks" for a few extra dollars.

Now sure, there are stories and things to be said of courage and perseverance in the face of adversity, but even the strongest of men can be spoiled by the right circumstances. I doubt 3 year old Adolf was playing with his toys thinking about world domination, but then again I could be wrong. Chemical imbalance, abuse, a whole host of things... who knows. Again though, given the right circumstances and that could be any one of us. The Milgram Experiments really drove home the point of what people were capable of and how circumstances effected those actions, even to the point of killing someone else.

 

[Celery]

You made an interesting point about the beggar and I dissed no one because they were most unfortunate than I.

Can you guess why? Anything can happen and I could be in their shoes so I'd have to rethink what I said about empathy.

 

[iPwn]

You made an interesting point about the beggar and I dissed no one because they were most unfortunate than I..

And I'm not accusing anyone of doing such. I simply mean to point out that we all live different lives under different circumstances. Change the circumstances and you find that the people are just the same.

From my own experience;

I grew up in a family of privilege and wealth. Now this is the only time in this thread I'm going to discuss any kind of religion and it's just going to be to make this simple point.

My parents would take us to services on Sunday and tell us how we're all supposed to be nice and kind, but then we'd go grocery shopping afterward and see a beggar, and they'd make comments about how that person was somehow less of a person because they were dirty or not shaven. I couldn't understand the complete disconnect from what I heard not less than an hour before. This (among other things) caused me to reject my religion at 17 and get disowned completely, kicked out and I became that beggar. I worked odd jobs and slept in friends tree houses at times to put myself through high school.

The boat continues on and sometimes when people go overboard it is necessary to not turn around to save everyone because you can't save everyone, but that does not mean that everyone is not deserving of empathy because you have to remember, under the right set of circumstances it very well may have been you that is screaming for help in a sea of water. For the greater good, the boat must continue on though.

 

[Celery]

I'm not saying you did but just how I feel. I don't feel like I'm better than anyone because I know we are products of the environment and circumstances. Either we are lucky or we are not.

And "For the greater good, the boat must continue on though."

Who makes that decision?

 

[iPwn]

?

I think that's the "problem" we're facing. The decisions we constantly make are always wrong in the eyes of this person or that. And perhaps the boat must stop for the greater good, I don't know. In the case of a dwindling food supply a snap judgement is made and we live with our actions.

"True wisdom is the knowledge that you know nothing." ~ Socrates

If the boat turned around, could it have saved the child and still made it to shore with all surviving? It's all a guessing game at that point. To cite soulphire's comment before, that's where 'tough decisions split good people' because we can't know the answer until a path is chosen and the consequences realized.

 

[Celery]

Right, you don't know what the outcome is going to be.

We'll be damned if we do and we"ll be damned if we don't.