The "Non-Political" Political Thread

[iPwn]

Rules of this thread: Please do NOT engage in candidate specific attacks. The candidates don't matter here. I wish to discuss some of what is presented by the entire process and not just 'Joebama thinks this and my shirt suffered.'

So, the debates are done and over with. A President will be decided.

I'll start off with the economy. It seems that every election, our economy is worse than it's ever been. It is by no means perfect, but I don't see it (at least in my area) as it is portrayed in every commercial or discussion point. Yes, people are out of jobs, but the sucking chest wound has been treated and the breathing has resumed IMO. We are better off now than we were were at several times and I don't think any one man/party gets sole bragging rights. It almost appears that these issues are raised as they are because the perception is created by the observer in a relative way that X candidate will make their own personal situation better than it is now. "Economy better == me richer" seems to be the accepted belief by many, not the reality that each citizen is separated in a small way, and enough that increased jobs may not produce more wealth for the already employed. If all were employed, then such a situation may arise. X Million people simply getting a job doesn't create another rung in the ladder. Campaigns seem use this as a "I'm the money tree" approach IMHO.

Other thoughts?

 

[Tech Explorer]

With respect to the economy, things are much more complicated than people make it out to be. Somebody had mentioned recently that 46,000 new unemployment claims were filed as if it were the end of the world and I pointed out that a more reliable measure is a four-week moving average that gives a better indication on the trend in this area (in fact new unemployment claims dropped off by 23,000 the following week, but you won't see me going out into the streets celebrating).

Many are aware that the US unemployment rate dropped off to 7.8%. Someone I know said it's because the unemployed have given up looking for work. Oh really? I don't believe that in general; the immediate reason is that people's unemployment insurance has run out. That would be the main reason, but isn't it also true that some people retire, maybe a few have found jobs, maybe a fair portion live in a two-income (or more) household that would cushion the loss of a job, etc.? I can ask are welfare rolls moving up?

Then we have the housing market with foreclosures and new housing starts, manufacturing, GDP and a myriad of measures. I put forth that there is no simple way of telling how the economy is doing let alone how much influence a President has over it if he has any at all.

 

[Hameister]

I agree that the "economy" is a very complex issue. However, for me, it can be simplified rather easily.

When you go to sell your house, and find it's worth 35% less than it should be worth, you may have a bad economy.

When the unemployment continues to be unreasonably high, (over 6%), for years, you may have a bad economy.

When salary increases by employers is constantly running 5% under what it should be, you may have a bad economy.

When month after month, year after year, the hotel, motel, resort businesses continue to report lower that expected revenue, you may have a bad economy.

When, the Fed has to continue to print unreasonable amounts of money, year after year, to try and stimulate business, you may have a bad economy.

When the result of all that money printing, is unreasonably low interest rates, that creates unrealistic stock prices, and the threat of another recession, you may have a bad economy.

When older folks can no longer count on a steady income from CD accounts, Bond Funds, and Treasury Notes, because the interest rates are too low to support income growth, you may have a bad economy.

When all of the above is valid at the same time, you do have a very bad economy!

Now, your only decision is which of the candidates is best qualified to rectify the economy, and you vote for that person. Unless of course, you're one of those people who feels that the economy is moving in the right direction, and will soon correct itself. Then you don't have to vote at all, and can go back to watching cartoons on TV.

 

[jmacavali]

My thoughts:
Stop putting junk mail flyers in my mailbox when all I do is recycle them.
Stop calling me and telling me your doing a survey and want to know who I'm going to vote for.

And lastly:
STOP CALLING ME AT 8:30 PM WHEN MY TODDLER IS TRYING TO SLEEP!!

I live in Ohio which is a huge swing state so I get so much crap each day - at least 2 flyers and at least 3 phone calls a day. It's stupid because now all you've done is make me not want to vote for you.

 

[Hameister]

I know what you mean. I live in the prized swing state of Florida, with 29 Electoral College votes. I get 2 to 3 phone calls a day, and tons of mail.

For me it's a little worse because I'm an Independent, who has voted both Republican, and Democrat over the years, so I get slammed from both parties.

I'll be very curious to see how many people voted for the team of Roseanne Barr, and Cindy Sheehan. Two certifiable loonies, that will probably get several hundred thousand votes. Hee, only in America!

 

[setishock]

@ iPwn Interesting stuff. Here's a small part of my take on things.

As I see it what's wrong with our country is the people living in it.
Now my dad belonged to the aerospace workers union and when he passed away they were there to help out. But some of the other unions are not so great. Automotive for example. They strike for more money at the drop of a hat. That increase costs the automotive industry large chunks of money that gets passed on to the end consumer. Cars in this country costing too much have prospective buyers looking at cheaper imports. To counter that the American car dealers backed by the manufactures, have cash back and discounts. In the end but not always, dealers and manufactures take a loss to move the product and take a write off to balance the books. And who do you think takes the hit for those write offs? Yup, you're right, us. The government lets them do that which increases the deficit which gets passed on to us in higher taxes.
There is so much wrong with this country you'd need the paper from the rain forest trees to list it all. People needs to recognized that they are the problem. And until the American public gets it through their skulls they are going to have to take an active part in getting our economy back under control, they will continue to blame the idiots in government for the problems and go on their merry little way.

 

[iPwn]

@Seti, that's not entirely accurate and I'll explain.

Make no mistake that the manufacturers are raking in money. Each year they have to buy bigger rakes. When employees strike for additional wages, the manufacturer could very easily pay those wages; they simply choose to not see a smaller income check themselves, resulting in higher prices. The margin between Cost of Production and MSRP is pretty large. I work for a company that resells product. We buy it for pennies and then only mark down the original cost a few dollars. One year, they gave every employee a large "Christmas Bonus" due to record profits. The very next year, they again had record profits, but didn't give a bonus because "4th Quarter didn't go so well." The issue with our economy (IMO) is the complete lack of regulation on profit. That's not to say that I am against profit, but the executives should not take home 40% of wages either. This recurring element of greed seems to be prevalent at every job. At one establishment, we did outsourcing. When I was promoted to Operations Manager I got in good with the executive team and learned of their secret. [Company] pays their internal employees $45/hr, and outsources to [OutsourceCompany], paying $40/hr for the same job. [OutsourceCompany] then pays their employees $8/hr and profits the remaining $32/hr per FTE. That type of business model is extremely profitable, but it is exactly what is wrong with our economy. Anyone and everyone is trying to bleed the blue collar population for everything they have as fast as they can. Since the blue collar population is what makes the country run, the Government provides small regulation and 'smoke in mirrors' tactics to keep the dying patient alive long enough for the next victim to walk through the door.

'None are more hopelessly enslaved then those who falsely believe they are free'

_______________________
@Tech Explorer

The President actually has a whole lot of control over it. Thanks to the this war on terrorism, it appears that our elected idiots can do anything without any type of permission. The issue we truly face in government is prostitution. The Lobbyists really control the policies, not the politicians. They simply proxy a vote for Exxon or Halliburton. I think if Ron Paul were elected (as crazy as that might sound), the population would see how much power one man can have. While not legal or constitutional, it happens almost daily.

 

[Hameister]

After all the political rhetoric, smoke, and BS, clears, it all boils down to this...

"The inherent vice of Capitalism is the unequal sharing of wealth. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
Winston Churchill

You decide what you want. Personally, I worked very hard all my life, and never felt any sense of entitlement from the government. As a result, I was rewarded both financially, as well as in self gratification. So, I'll take the former of Mr. Churchill's suggestions.

 

[MMM]

So you prefer socialism?

 

[Hameister]

So you prefer socialism?

No, I said...."I'll take the former of Mr. Churchill's suggestions."

Former, meaning the first part of his statement.