School days
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superman22x
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Out of curiosity, are teachers unions common and as powerful in other countries like they are here in America? Chicago recently tried to extend their days because they have some of the worst scores in the country. The teachers striked for weeks straight because they weren't getting good enough of a pay raise. But claimed, "it was all about the Children." Who for weeks had to sit at home not getting educated so the teachers could ask for more money.
jmacavali
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Disclaimer: I work in a school district and my wife is a teacher.
1st - the politicians who wanna change education need to take two weeks and come sit in a classroom all day -everyday. They'll realize pretty darn quick they have no idea what really goes on and what their "bright" ideas will really mean to teachers and children.
2nd - our teachers make around $90 a day (that's about $11-12 an hour or about 4 an hour per kid). Then add in the new testing and teacher evaluations (and this played a big role in the Chicago strike - it wasn't just about money) and you have a highly undervalued and under appreciated job. These teachers are going to be evaluated on whether a student can sit down for 3 hours and pass a test. Not to mention that some of these kids are worried about finding a meal after school or they have had 3 different dads or moms in 3 years or they are on more drugs than a rock star in the 70's. It's really an unfair measurement of how good a teacher actually is.
End rant and no more comments from me on the topic.
1st - the politicians who wanna change education need to take two weeks and come sit in a classroom all day -everyday. They'll realize pretty darn quick they have no idea what really goes on and what their "bright" ideas will really mean to teachers and children.
2nd - our teachers make around $90 a day (that's about $11-12 an hour or about 4 an hour per kid). Then add in the new testing and teacher evaluations (and this played a big role in the Chicago strike - it wasn't just about money) and you have a highly undervalued and under appreciated job. These teachers are going to be evaluated on whether a student can sit down for 3 hours and pass a test. Not to mention that some of these kids are worried about finding a meal after school or they have had 3 different dads or moms in 3 years or they are on more drugs than a rock star in the 70's. It's really an unfair measurement of how good a teacher actually is.
End rant and no more comments from me on the topic.
superman22x
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Are you sure it's only $90/day? The average salary around here is like $60-70k. Which is closer to $40+/hour. Plus they get every holiday off and the summer. And almost no teachers actually spend the entire summer working on a lesson plan... My mom is probably the busiest teacher in the entire district (she works special ed) and doesn't have hardly a thing to do in the summer that's work related.
But if she is really only getting $90/day, that seems really low. And that's not right for the district to pay that little.
And as far as No Child Left Behind and standardized testing... the worst thing to ever happen to schools. The next worst thing is teachers unions.
I have worked in education by the way.
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I love your contributions to my threads, but you left me confused with your second point.
My understanding is that a school day lasts for six hours. If this is so, then at $90 a day would make that $15 an hour, not $11 to $12 an hour. What am I missing here?
jmacavali
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Ok I said no more comments from me but...
Yes it's $90.00 per day. School is from 8-3, but teachers are required to be there around 7 - 7:15 each day.
I hate the argument that they get summers off. The students are in school for 7-8 hours each day. By the time they get home it's 3:30-4:00. They go to bed at 8:00-9:00. So really the parents have about 1 hour before school and 4-5 hours after school, for a total of 6-7 hours. Parents see their own kids for the same amout of time as a teacher - or less if they work until 5:00.
I've heard more and more stories about teachers calling home and telling the parents that the child got in trouble and the parents saying something along the lines of "ok, what do you want me to do about it?". <-- Therein lies the whole problem with our society today.
LOL...see I came back just to answer 2 questions and I end up ranting again...that's why I was hoping to not post anything else. I'm only 26 but sound like I'm 56....LOL
Yes it's $90.00 per day. School is from 8-3, but teachers are required to be there around 7 - 7:15 each day.
I hate the argument that they get summers off. The students are in school for 7-8 hours each day. By the time they get home it's 3:30-4:00. They go to bed at 8:00-9:00. So really the parents have about 1 hour before school and 4-5 hours after school, for a total of 6-7 hours. Parents see their own kids for the same amout of time as a teacher - or less if they work until 5:00.
I've heard more and more stories about teachers calling home and telling the parents that the child got in trouble and the parents saying something along the lines of "ok, what do you want me to do about it?". <-- Therein lies the whole problem with our society today.
LOL...see I came back just to answer 2 questions and I end up ranting again...that's why I was hoping to not post anything else. I'm only 26 but sound like I'm 56....LOL
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superman22x
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Why do you hate the argument that they get the summer off? It's true. Sure the kids need the time off, but it doesn't change the fact that they are paid good salary's to work 9 months out of the year, not to mention the tons of holidays they have off.
Most private sector workers are taking pay cuts for more hours of the same position in this economy. Yet teachers still complain to not being paid enough. And I'm not talking about your wife, if she is really only being paid $90/day, that is really low. I've never met a teacher making that little. Most make at least $45k if they are starting out around here.
Most private sector workers are taking pay cuts for more hours of the same position in this economy. Yet teachers still complain to not being paid enough. And I'm not talking about your wife, if she is really only being paid $90/day, that is really low. I've never met a teacher making that little. Most make at least $45k if they are starting out around here.
jmacavali
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You are obviously in a good area. We pay our subs $90 per day to sub because that's about average for our teachers.
As my final thoughts on the matter....if it's such an easy job with great benefits and they are overpaid...then I challege you to do the job for a year. Live with the stress and the headache and everything else that goes along with it. Knowing a big part of your evaluation and by extention your job - your livelyhood - rests on the shoulders of 30 kids sitting down for a 4 hour test and doing well on it.
If you live in a big, rich, suburban school district where everyone is happy, healthy, and "normal" then things are great. But if you live in a district that's underprivleged, where 60-70% (or higher) of your kids are on free and reduced lunches, where there are 4 brothers and sisters that all have different last names, where "normal" is going home and hoping the electricity is still turned on, where you can't pass a school levy because the citizens of the town can't afford it, then you'll get an idea of what teaching is really like. You'll appreciate the job the teacher do and wonder in awe at how they can do it.
If you want to talk 'downsizing'...we've cut about 15 positions - 7 or 8 of them teachers - in the last 5 years. That's about 10% of the staff cut.
Teachers teach because they love the job. They can't image themselves doing anything else. Even when this has become the culture:
As my final thoughts on the matter....if it's such an easy job with great benefits and they are overpaid...then I challege you to do the job for a year. Live with the stress and the headache and everything else that goes along with it. Knowing a big part of your evaluation and by extention your job - your livelyhood - rests on the shoulders of 30 kids sitting down for a 4 hour test and doing well on it.
If you live in a big, rich, suburban school district where everyone is happy, healthy, and "normal" then things are great. But if you live in a district that's underprivleged, where 60-70% (or higher) of your kids are on free and reduced lunches, where there are 4 brothers and sisters that all have different last names, where "normal" is going home and hoping the electricity is still turned on, where you can't pass a school levy because the citizens of the town can't afford it, then you'll get an idea of what teaching is really like. You'll appreciate the job the teacher do and wonder in awe at how they can do it.
If you want to talk 'downsizing'...we've cut about 15 positions - 7 or 8 of them teachers - in the last 5 years. That's about 10% of the staff cut.
Teachers teach because they love the job. They can't image themselves doing anything else. Even when this has become the culture:
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Since this is my thread, to forestall any possible arguments about how much teachers should get paid, I'd say the best way to determine that is to let the free market system decide. To stay on track, whether the days are shortened or lengthened, you'll always find advantages and disadvantages, but I think it's worth the expense (so long as the school system can afford it) to lengthen the day. I think it'll be interesting to find out how much time other countries outside of the US are devoting towards educating their children and how their programs are working out?
Actually that all depends on where you are employed. My job is no where near those hours. My opening shift is 5am-2pm. Morning shifts are 7am-4pm. Mid shifts are 11am-8pm. Night shifts are 12pm-9pm and there is also an overnight shift from 10pm-7am. There are also shifts that vary throughout the day depending on that person's availability. Some days I work 9am-9pm just to get my hours in for the week.
Granted I work in retail and for the largest retailer in the world. But there is no 9-5 shift at all. Even the people who are lucky to have a shift close to that, it is 9-6 since the lunch time is not paid by Walmart and you have to clock out for that hour and stay an hour later to make your full 8 hour work day.
So to say that a "normal" workday is 9-5 is only accurate for some companies. My wife is an Asst Mgr. Her hours go from 8am-8pm, if she is lucky enough to get all of her associates problems solved as well as her own work done in that time. There are times where she has to go in on her "days off" to do some work that she couldnt get accomplished on her days when she is normally scheduled.
9-5 is a thing of the past. The only places I know of around here that have those hours, banks. Every other company that operates in my area, all open up much earlier and stay open much later than that. Then there are places that are open 24/7. So such a bill doesnt account for those parents who dont work in banks.
I could see this being a benefit for High School or College. But my child is in kindergarden. What purpose would it serve for a child at such an early stage in school to be there during a "work day"? My child has 13 more years of school ahead of her, more if she goes to college. Why at such a tender age of 5 would there be any need for a child to know what it is like to work a normal shift? They cant even legally work for another 11 years anyways.
Even if the purpose is to extend the school day to a full 8 hours, what purpose would it serve? Kids now have shorter and shorter attention spans. If kids are having issues staying focused the time they are there, what would telling them they have to be there more do? It would give the kids more time to lose focus and do even worse cause they are not focused on what they need to be.
Even when I went to school from 8am-3pm, there was many times during my 40 minutes classes that I would daydream, fall asleep or whatever. I wouldnt be focused on what the teacher was saying and not pay attention. Yes, I am paying for it now, but that isnt going to help today's kids. They are going to do the same exact thing. They will get into more trouble and get worse grades cause they will not be able to sit through an hour long class listening to the teacher talk about something.
It will be even worse if the kid doesnt like the teacher or the subject matter at hand. Its not like there is a wide selection of teachers available for all subjects or easy to just switch teachers. So basically we will tell the kids that they have to live with it? That isnt a lesson that a kid needs to be learning at such a young age. They will learn it when they start working, but simply put they already have learned that aspect anyways. They should already know that there are going to be things that they cant do cause of various reasons and they have to accept that. But forcing a kid to sit in a room listening to someone they dont like talk about something they dont like isnt going to make anything better for anyone. The parents, kid and teacher will all lose in such a situation.
So that is what I see and what I think. It is my own personal opinion and isnt going to be shared by everyone. But simply put, that is how it is for me and my family. There is no way having my child sit in school for longer periods of time that will benefit anyone.
