Appreciate your frankness MM, a lot of 12 to 16 year old guys over here wear very slack khaki pants, that they have to keep hitching up else they'd fall down, the cuffs frayed where they drag in the dirt, plus long straps hanging down so long they trip over them, the latsst fashion in jeans, mostly girls, is to have 3 inch wide ladders in the material, from the thigh, all the way down to the cuffs, also goth is everywhere, you see guys sweating in hot weather, wearing ankle-length black "leather" coats, the goth girls looking like living dead in black with black lipstick & white make up.