Xbox 360 report.
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SilentScope
BSOD
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- 205
Yeah, the console is able to produce great GFX, they just need games that have the GFX. Remember when PS2's GFX sucked, and then they got better?
Kage
Golden Master
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For one thing, you think the visuals of the PS3 will be better? You are wrong...
The video chip in the PS3 is supposedly slightly less powerful, and the extra set of processors built into the CELL won't be as good at games as you may think. They don't process in the right way, and because they are joined in such a way, the other parts of the CELL have to wait for other parts to catch up.
Anyway, the games I've played on the XBOX 360 haven't amazed me, and yes, I played Call of Duty, and eww... It did just look like an XBOX game and didn't impress me at all.
The other two, Kameo and King Kong impressed me a bit more, and looked newer, yet there still nto using the full capabilities, and plus at the moment here, are demos with glitches.
Comes out 2nd December...
I think the games will get better, and these games aren't meant to be using all the hardware anyway,. Have you noticed with every console game, the graphics get better as time goes on as deveolopers learn to take use of the extra CPU's and graphics power?
Plus, if you don't have HDTV, i do think its a waste the console transmitting at that res al the time, but thats just me, since all games by Microsoft need to run at that res and run at 30fps. Thatse a really high res for how these games are going to be pushed and you have to think of that, and so thats rather impressive considering it uses hardware more than a PC game would utilise it.
Project Gotham Racing will be great I think, and the polygons being pushed in that are amazing. Not to mention motion blur and depth of field running in real time.
CONCLUSION:
We are getting to the point now though where visuals aren't going to get better for a while, and so a big difference won't be noticed from a PC, etc.
What we will get though from new consoles are better gameplay with advanced AI, and alot more going on than your eyes will probably notice off hand.
The video chip in the PS3 is supposedly slightly less powerful, and the extra set of processors built into the CELL won't be as good at games as you may think. They don't process in the right way, and because they are joined in such a way, the other parts of the CELL have to wait for other parts to catch up.
Anyway, the games I've played on the XBOX 360 haven't amazed me, and yes, I played Call of Duty, and eww... It did just look like an XBOX game and didn't impress me at all.
The other two, Kameo and King Kong impressed me a bit more, and looked newer, yet there still nto using the full capabilities, and plus at the moment here, are demos with glitches.
Comes out 2nd December...
I think the games will get better, and these games aren't meant to be using all the hardware anyway,. Have you noticed with every console game, the graphics get better as time goes on as deveolopers learn to take use of the extra CPU's and graphics power?
Plus, if you don't have HDTV, i do think its a waste the console transmitting at that res al the time, but thats just me, since all games by Microsoft need to run at that res and run at 30fps. Thatse a really high res for how these games are going to be pushed and you have to think of that, and so thats rather impressive considering it uses hardware more than a PC game would utilise it.
Project Gotham Racing will be great I think, and the polygons being pushed in that are amazing. Not to mention motion blur and depth of field running in real time.
CONCLUSION:
We are getting to the point now though where visuals aren't going to get better for a while, and so a big difference won't be noticed from a PC, etc.
What we will get though from new consoles are better gameplay with advanced AI, and alot more going on than your eyes will probably notice off hand.
Speedydowt
In Runtime
- Messages
- 402
alinvo defends xboc to its least breath....im a hige xbox fan and still was left hugely disapointed by the lack of orginallity and visuals the xbox 360 has compared to say the differnce between Ps and Ps2
Speedydowt
In Runtime
- Messages
- 402
Alinvo defends xbox to its least breath....im a hige xbox fan and still was left hugely disapointed by the lack of orginallity and visuals the xbox 360 has compared to say the differnce between Ps and Ps2
JustinMcG67
BSOD
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- 2,519
Just wait till Gran Turismo 5 comes out on the PS3. Then you'll experience the distance bewteen fantasy and reality is growing quite slim...
Kage
Golden Master
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- 13,873
I think teh XBOX 360 can only get better, and there won't be any difference between graphics on PS3 to Xbox360... and if there is, it won't be noticeable.
Anyhow though, I've read in reports that the first games to come out are only using one of the CPU's, or 2 with some developers who are just using it for physics. As time goes on, they will be used alot better and more efficently, and we'll see better games, with alot more going on than the ones at launch.
Oh and, not to mention a few developers are still using old Xbox style code so the graphics are just the same (AMPED 3, GUN as great examples), though its capable of alot more. You just wait for games to use the Unreal 3 engine
You'll also find, by the time the PS3 comes out, the Xbox 360's games would have gotten better, all the CPU's will be used, and the graphics, etc will look alot better than the first games released on the Playstation 3, like with the Xbox360 at launch.
If you read a bit, you'll know I'm true about the differences. The difference between SPU'S on the Playstation 3 and XBox's cores running differently (more efficently in some places, but the PS3's is built to run more certain types of code)
Plus the ATI graphics chip on the Xbox 360 mixing Vertex and Pixel shaders together on a Unified core which should allow for more improvement too over standard 2 paths for both.
"whats the diference between the normal one and the cheaper core pack version of the 360?"
The core back doesn't contain a hard drive, HD cable, or Wireless controller, and doesn't contain the full Gold Subscription of XBOX Live.
It does contain the Silver though which still allows you to be partly online to view things from games, but just not to play online with people, and a wired controller.
I don't mind though. I won't be playing online much when I get one, and I don't like Wireless, and its not like i'll be playing too far away anyway from the console...
Plus, you can buy the hard drive later on when you need it with all the extras on it, and also a HD cable when you have a High Definition Display.
So, you buy the core for £220 (UK), and then can buy a memory card (64mb), and a game for the same price as the full version (£270)
Some packs on the internet I've seen also give you two games for the same price!
Anyhow though, I've read in reports that the first games to come out are only using one of the CPU's, or 2 with some developers who are just using it for physics. As time goes on, they will be used alot better and more efficently, and we'll see better games, with alot more going on than the ones at launch.
Oh and, not to mention a few developers are still using old Xbox style code so the graphics are just the same (AMPED 3, GUN as great examples), though its capable of alot more. You just wait for games to use the Unreal 3 engine
You'll also find, by the time the PS3 comes out, the Xbox 360's games would have gotten better, all the CPU's will be used, and the graphics, etc will look alot better than the first games released on the Playstation 3, like with the Xbox360 at launch.
If you read a bit, you'll know I'm true about the differences. The difference between SPU'S on the Playstation 3 and XBox's cores running differently (more efficently in some places, but the PS3's is built to run more certain types of code)
Plus the ATI graphics chip on the Xbox 360 mixing Vertex and Pixel shaders together on a Unified core which should allow for more improvement too over standard 2 paths for both.
"whats the diference between the normal one and the cheaper core pack version of the 360?"
The core back doesn't contain a hard drive, HD cable, or Wireless controller, and doesn't contain the full Gold Subscription of XBOX Live.
It does contain the Silver though which still allows you to be partly online to view things from games, but just not to play online with people, and a wired controller.
I don't mind though. I won't be playing online much when I get one, and I don't like Wireless, and its not like i'll be playing too far away anyway from the console...
Plus, you can buy the hard drive later on when you need it with all the extras on it, and also a HD cable when you have a High Definition Display.
So, you buy the core for £220 (UK), and then can buy a memory card (64mb), and a game for the same price as the full version (£270)
Some packs on the internet I've seen also give you two games for the same price!
alvino
Golden Master
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Yeah, Gun and Amped 3 are just ports from the current-gen consoles. It'll take time, because the developers need time in order to fully utilize the Xbox 360's hardware.
Also, for you Xbox 360 nay-sayers on the part where the Xbox 360 gets BSODs and such is because of a overheating power supply (jokingly called the "power brick"). The main reason is that people tend to cram it into tight places that trap heat, so then the PSU overheats and becomes unstable, which results in a unstable power line. When that happens, you get a unstable system.
However, there is always a solution. Some have reported that putting the PSU on a empty box with the open side facing up helps the PSU get ventilated air all around. Some have hung with with some string, some put it by a fan, etc. Just make sure you don't put it in any places where it'll trap heat (like under cabinets, behind the TV where the cables "belong" or on the carpet etc).
Yes. The PS3's Cell processors SPE cores are extremely good for floating-point performance, while the Xbox 360's tri-core is better for general processing. They work really differently, so it's hard to compare.
On to the GPUs. The ATI Xenos chip is one of the most unique GPUs ever made. With the PS3's RSX and the PC's normal graphics cards, the pixel pipelines and vertex shaders are all individual, so there will be a certain number of pixel pipelines and vertex shaders (like the 7800 GTX's 24 pixel pipelines and 8 vertex shaders). The disadvantage to this is that sometimes some of the pipelines or shaders won't be completely used, which means that they just don't do anything. This just makes it unefficient and a waste.
ATI realized that separating pixel pipelines and vertex shaders is a relatively inefficient process. Obviously you need both shader types, but why fix the number of how many you need? Thus the Unified Shader Architecture was concieved. Instead, ATI created generic shader engines that can be dynamically assigned to either pixel or vertex functions as needed (48 of them in the Xenos' case). You can devote all your engines to vertex processing when theres a lot of triangles, or if theres only a few large triangles but lots of pixels, you could devote all the shaders resources to pixle processing. ATI claims this unified shader model yeilds the best performance (120 billion operations per second) with maximum efficiency. This flexibility allows the GPU to efficiently utilize it's pipelines instead of leaving some of them hanging like the RSX (which uses the traditionally independent shaders).
The PS3's bar is an estimate of the RSX's GPU shader operations per second. It is based upon the currently released specs of the RSX.
According to ATI, the Xenos is actually TWO chips. GPU is the "parent" die, but there is also a "daughter" die, which has embedded memory, and inside that memory is intellegence that does a lot of the graphics processing from within the memory. Instead of relying on the main system memory to do anti-aliasing, Z, alpha processing and stencil processing, this will be done within this embedded memory. Add that with the intelligence inside the memory, you never have to leave it. This pretty much gives you infinite bandwidth.
To be precise, it gives you 2TB per second of memory bandwidth. The big payoff from this high overhead is in anti-aliasing, which is a major factor in the Xenos' HDTV output. If you compare with the R520 (or better known as the X1800), there is a lot of heavy lifting with Multi-Sampling and Super-Sampling, which entials a lot of extra drawing and blending. With the Xenos, all the anti-aliasing happens within the graphics memory, so there's no impact on surrounding system resources and you're not bogging down the main system memory with samples that never get used. This totally helps everything become more efficient and resourceful.
In my opinion, the Xenos is one of the best and unique GPUs to date. ATI has really done a great job designing this and making this chip possible. Yes, the PS3's RSX may have 50mhz more (Xenos runs at 500mhz while the RSX runs at 550mhz) of clock speed, it's going to be inherently inefficient and will run on pure brute force instead of grace. Also, the RSX doesn't have the Xenos' unique intelligent memory, which means that the PS3's 256mb XRAM (another 256mb is for the CPU, while another 256mb is for the GPU) will have the unfortunate honor of doing all those processes with extremely slow memory bandwidth compared to the Xenos.
I'm sorry for the long read, but I thought I'd just explain the Xbox 360's GPU, because not many people actually understand how it really works.
Also, for you Xbox 360 nay-sayers on the part where the Xbox 360 gets BSODs and such is because of a overheating power supply (jokingly called the "power brick"). The main reason is that people tend to cram it into tight places that trap heat, so then the PSU overheats and becomes unstable, which results in a unstable power line. When that happens, you get a unstable system.
However, there is always a solution. Some have reported that putting the PSU on a empty box with the open side facing up helps the PSU get ventilated air all around. Some have hung with with some string, some put it by a fan, etc. Just make sure you don't put it in any places where it'll trap heat (like under cabinets, behind the TV where the cables "belong" or on the carpet etc).
Kage said:
Yes. The PS3's Cell processors SPE cores are extremely good for floating-point performance, while the Xbox 360's tri-core is better for general processing. They work really differently, so it's hard to compare.
On to the GPUs. The ATI Xenos chip is one of the most unique GPUs ever made. With the PS3's RSX and the PC's normal graphics cards, the pixel pipelines and vertex shaders are all individual, so there will be a certain number of pixel pipelines and vertex shaders (like the 7800 GTX's 24 pixel pipelines and 8 vertex shaders). The disadvantage to this is that sometimes some of the pipelines or shaders won't be completely used, which means that they just don't do anything. This just makes it unefficient and a waste.
ATI realized that separating pixel pipelines and vertex shaders is a relatively inefficient process. Obviously you need both shader types, but why fix the number of how many you need? Thus the Unified Shader Architecture was concieved. Instead, ATI created generic shader engines that can be dynamically assigned to either pixel or vertex functions as needed (48 of them in the Xenos' case). You can devote all your engines to vertex processing when theres a lot of triangles, or if theres only a few large triangles but lots of pixels, you could devote all the shaders resources to pixle processing. ATI claims this unified shader model yeilds the best performance (120 billion operations per second) with maximum efficiency. This flexibility allows the GPU to efficiently utilize it's pipelines instead of leaving some of them hanging like the RSX (which uses the traditionally independent shaders).
The PS3's bar is an estimate of the RSX's GPU shader operations per second. It is based upon the currently released specs of the RSX.
According to ATI, the Xenos is actually TWO chips. GPU is the "parent" die, but there is also a "daughter" die, which has embedded memory, and inside that memory is intellegence that does a lot of the graphics processing from within the memory. Instead of relying on the main system memory to do anti-aliasing, Z, alpha processing and stencil processing, this will be done within this embedded memory. Add that with the intelligence inside the memory, you never have to leave it. This pretty much gives you infinite bandwidth.
To be precise, it gives you 2TB per second of memory bandwidth. The big payoff from this high overhead is in anti-aliasing, which is a major factor in the Xenos' HDTV output. If you compare with the R520 (or better known as the X1800), there is a lot of heavy lifting with Multi-Sampling and Super-Sampling, which entials a lot of extra drawing and blending. With the Xenos, all the anti-aliasing happens within the graphics memory, so there's no impact on surrounding system resources and you're not bogging down the main system memory with samples that never get used. This totally helps everything become more efficient and resourceful.
In my opinion, the Xenos is one of the best and unique GPUs to date. ATI has really done a great job designing this and making this chip possible. Yes, the PS3's RSX may have 50mhz more (Xenos runs at 500mhz while the RSX runs at 550mhz) of clock speed, it's going to be inherently inefficient and will run on pure brute force instead of grace. Also, the RSX doesn't have the Xenos' unique intelligent memory, which means that the PS3's 256mb XRAM (another 256mb is for the CPU, while another 256mb is for the GPU) will have the unfortunate honor of doing all those processes with extremely slow memory bandwidth compared to the Xenos.
I'm sorry for the long read, but I thought I'd just explain the Xbox 360's GPU, because not many people actually understand how it really works.
alvino
Golden Master
- Messages
- 19,967
1337DuD3 said:
Okay. Forza Motorsport 2 will own it just like Forza Motorsport did to Gran Turismo 4.
Fine, I'll give the Gran Turismo series the credit for "revolutionizing" the simulation racing genre, but really, Forza Motorsport really did fix some of the potholes that Gran Turismo missed.
IGN.com Forza Motorsport Review - Closing Comments said:
You add this game with Xbox Live's integrated connectivity with the community, and you'll own Gran Turismo 4 with Sony's pitiful Sony Online (which I don't even think supported it).
