Firearms? Whos got em.
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BuzzStPoint
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I met my wife 10 years ago..
For the 1st 5 years, I would ask her and joke about getting a handgun. Her responce to this was.. "It's a gun or me." She was absolutly against it..
Well the 5th year I joked about getting one and she said. "It's your money. But you have to lock them up.. And buy a safe"
I did that.. took her out 3 times before she shot my gun. 4 times with her shooting she said it was kinda fun. But she was scared of the gun. Too big..
So without her knowing, I went and bought her a 22 caliber pistol.
She loved it.. The look and size of the gun.. 2 years later, She loves guns and feels the same way I do. There are times when she will drag me to the range..
As for guns being dangerous.. They are only dangerous in the wrong hands. Knives, sticks, arrows, car and trucks and even in the spoons are dangerous. But only in the wrong has.
I have a buddy, his father is a black belt, Pro boxer, and master in pressure points of the human body. He can take someone down simply by applying slight pressure to the underside of you nose. He has the capability of killing somone with less than a pound of pressure with his thumb. He's also classified as a dangerous weapon.. Labeled a killing machine. This seems allright with most people that this is completly acceptable. Saying wow.. Thats cool...
But yet when they turn around and see his rifles and shotguns in the cabinet.. The tides have changed......
For the 1st 5 years, I would ask her and joke about getting a handgun. Her responce to this was.. "It's a gun or me." She was absolutly against it..
Well the 5th year I joked about getting one and she said. "It's your money. But you have to lock them up.. And buy a safe"
I did that.. took her out 3 times before she shot my gun. 4 times with her shooting she said it was kinda fun. But she was scared of the gun. Too big..
So without her knowing, I went and bought her a 22 caliber pistol.
She loved it.. The look and size of the gun.. 2 years later, She loves guns and feels the same way I do. There are times when she will drag me to the range..
As for guns being dangerous.. They are only dangerous in the wrong hands. Knives, sticks, arrows, car and trucks and even in the spoons are dangerous. But only in the wrong has.
I have a buddy, his father is a black belt, Pro boxer, and master in pressure points of the human body. He can take someone down simply by applying slight pressure to the underside of you nose. He has the capability of killing somone with less than a pound of pressure with his thumb. He's also classified as a dangerous weapon.. Labeled a killing machine. This seems allright with most people that this is completly acceptable. Saying wow.. Thats cool...
But yet when they turn around and see his rifles and shotguns in the cabinet.. The tides have changed......
yes, very well said, and I see the point you are making but you completly miss the point that people trained in fighting skills like martial arts are properly trained to be responsible with their skills, there are records of their skill level and they are licensed, (assuming that they fight in tournaments)...
person - possible dangerous weapon, yes
well regulated/recorded, yes
gun - possible dangerous weapon, yes
well regulated/recorded, no...
do you understand the difference?
person - possible dangerous weapon, yes
well regulated/recorded, yes
gun - possible dangerous weapon, yes
well regulated/recorded, no...
do you understand the difference?
I think the point he was making is that many people just assume they are dangerous and everyone who has one must be bad, but until you've taken the time to have an experiance yourself you don't rally know...
As I've said myself, I've been shooting before (and appear to be the only forum member to have killed living things -perhaps that's why I have an appreciation of their danger) I mean shooting bit of paper belise the danger of the device really.
Anyway, I agree that guns are safe in the right hands. but who do you know has the right hands?
you've alerady stated qwuite clearly that you'd rather someone die in order to proove irresponsibility rather than you have to proove your responsibility before owning a weapon.
you campaign for the right to carry a gun conceiled in public,
You are fighting for rights that you don't need, the right to carry a conceled gun will only make it harder for the law to identify potential trouble makers, (I mean as it stands if you have a conceled gun, you are upto no good).
does it not occur to you that licensing firearms is not about taking away the rights of citizens, it's about protecting the rights (and lives) of citizens. it's about protecting you and your family.
you don't have a constitutionally protected right to carry a gun in public, (either displayed or not displayed), does this mean that this right can be taken away?
owning agun is a privellage and a responsibiity, it shouldn't be viewd as a right, or something that has to be done.
As I've said myself, I've been shooting before (and appear to be the only forum member to have killed living things -perhaps that's why I have an appreciation of their danger) I mean shooting bit of paper belise the danger of the device really.
Anyway, I agree that guns are safe in the right hands. but who do you know has the right hands?
you've alerady stated qwuite clearly that you'd rather someone die in order to proove irresponsibility rather than you have to proove your responsibility before owning a weapon.
you campaign for the right to carry a gun conceiled in public,
You are fighting for rights that you don't need, the right to carry a conceled gun will only make it harder for the law to identify potential trouble makers, (I mean as it stands if you have a conceled gun, you are upto no good).
does it not occur to you that licensing firearms is not about taking away the rights of citizens, it's about protecting the rights (and lives) of citizens. it's about protecting you and your family.
you don't have a constitutionally protected right to carry a gun in public, (either displayed or not displayed), does this mean that this right can be taken away?
owning agun is a privellage and a responsibiity, it shouldn't be viewd as a right, or something that has to be done.
lurkswithin
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spank_fusion,
[quote}That's one of the worst things I've ever heard. How utterly ignorant is that statement. I'm not even going to explain. If you can't figure that one out.... damn. That's sad. Unfortunately, that's the mentality of many people in this country. I'm embarrassed to live here. I really am. And we all wonder why half of the world hates us. It's because of that mentality that so many United States citizens exhibit.[quote} You need to go live in another country. There is the door Bud.
What is pathetic in this is that I was in reference to the fundamental right of freedom which these United States was founded on and you can not understand it for what it was. Freedom from unlawful arrest or confinement....This along with others is what our forefathers gave their lives against a tyranical society. They understood the importance of this to the extent that half the world is trying to copy our fundamental rights.
These rights CANNOT nor EVER BE allowed to be split or seperated into a single Item. These rights SHOULD BE AND FOREVER WILL BE KEPT WHOLE as they were meant to be. That someone can try to seperate them to impose a different perspective is what scares me. People like you is what scares me.
The adage "Divide and Conquer" is perfect for this. You wish to divide the "Bill OF Rights" into seperate intities so as to enforce an irrational thought into something tangible. Everything can be divided into seperate parts and falsely percieved as dangerous so as to spurt fear into others.
I buy "silverware" as a set..and on its own...there is nothing wrong...but seperate the knives and I now have a dangerous weapon that I must be proved to be able to have. The same with "tool sets" these came with box cutters, similar to what was used to hijack planes and kill thousands of people and In which was declared the most heinous crime ever committe against people of the united states. where is your out cry for the prevention of owning these...you have no cry here.
The Issue here is really simple...we have rights that were guaranteed us. These rights as a whole are reasponsible to you and the world to enjoy what freedoms you now have....Now you wish to desemate them so that your irrational thinking can prevail. No Thank you!
You wish to remove firearms from criminals... Then make sure that criminals are put away so that they can never get their hands on them, but do not try to restrict everyone else...they have done no wrong.
You say that it encourages criminal behaviour, I say it deters it... Three-eights of the people in the United States live in an urban areas where there is strict gun regulation and LESS gun OWNERSHIP it yet has the highest criminal activity..Two-eights live in a suburban area with more gun ownership and less gun regulation and although this area is bordering the urban areas the crime rate is 60% less. Now the other half live in rural areas where everyone is known to own firearms and the criminal activity is a whopping 96% less than the urban areas....
I worked my way through college in the department of corrections for New York State. In open discussions of burglars and thieves and even con artists they all talked and joked about where they stole from and where they didn't... All of them were in agreement that they didn't burglarize or steal from people that were known to have, hold and use firearms and yet everyone else was marked for them to do what they wanted. Granted there were a few exceptions where the risk exceeded the threat.
That in itself is more proof to allow open ownership than any of your hypothetical, self induced hysteria of removing access to all guns....
and again...I want to emphasize that I do not own a gun. I Just don't want self righteous, hysterical zealots keeping me from owning one. And to the extent that if I choose to purchase something then I should be able to go and buy that item without sacrificing my rights to do so....
Your analolgy of having to register for driving and all that other garbage is just that....You cannot use the rules of priviledge to govern the quarantee of individual rights... To do that is to regress to an earlier age and history in itself has shown what that brought about.
[quote}That's one of the worst things I've ever heard. How utterly ignorant is that statement. I'm not even going to explain. If you can't figure that one out.... damn. That's sad. Unfortunately, that's the mentality of many people in this country. I'm embarrassed to live here. I really am. And we all wonder why half of the world hates us. It's because of that mentality that so many United States citizens exhibit.[quote} You need to go live in another country. There is the door Bud.
What is pathetic in this is that I was in reference to the fundamental right of freedom which these United States was founded on and you can not understand it for what it was. Freedom from unlawful arrest or confinement....This along with others is what our forefathers gave their lives against a tyranical society. They understood the importance of this to the extent that half the world is trying to copy our fundamental rights.
These rights CANNOT nor EVER BE allowed to be split or seperated into a single Item. These rights SHOULD BE AND FOREVER WILL BE KEPT WHOLE as they were meant to be. That someone can try to seperate them to impose a different perspective is what scares me. People like you is what scares me.
The adage "Divide and Conquer" is perfect for this. You wish to divide the "Bill OF Rights" into seperate intities so as to enforce an irrational thought into something tangible. Everything can be divided into seperate parts and falsely percieved as dangerous so as to spurt fear into others.
I buy "silverware" as a set..and on its own...there is nothing wrong...but seperate the knives and I now have a dangerous weapon that I must be proved to be able to have. The same with "tool sets" these came with box cutters, similar to what was used to hijack planes and kill thousands of people and In which was declared the most heinous crime ever committe against people of the united states. where is your out cry for the prevention of owning these...you have no cry here.
The Issue here is really simple...we have rights that were guaranteed us. These rights as a whole are reasponsible to you and the world to enjoy what freedoms you now have....Now you wish to desemate them so that your irrational thinking can prevail. No Thank you!
You wish to remove firearms from criminals... Then make sure that criminals are put away so that they can never get their hands on them, but do not try to restrict everyone else...they have done no wrong.
You say that it encourages criminal behaviour, I say it deters it... Three-eights of the people in the United States live in an urban areas where there is strict gun regulation and LESS gun OWNERSHIP it yet has the highest criminal activity..Two-eights live in a suburban area with more gun ownership and less gun regulation and although this area is bordering the urban areas the crime rate is 60% less. Now the other half live in rural areas where everyone is known to own firearms and the criminal activity is a whopping 96% less than the urban areas....
I worked my way through college in the department of corrections for New York State. In open discussions of burglars and thieves and even con artists they all talked and joked about where they stole from and where they didn't... All of them were in agreement that they didn't burglarize or steal from people that were known to have, hold and use firearms and yet everyone else was marked for them to do what they wanted. Granted there were a few exceptions where the risk exceeded the threat.
That in itself is more proof to allow open ownership than any of your hypothetical, self induced hysteria of removing access to all guns....
and again...I want to emphasize that I do not own a gun. I Just don't want self righteous, hysterical zealots keeping me from owning one. And to the extent that if I choose to purchase something then I should be able to go and buy that item without sacrificing my rights to do so....
Your analolgy of having to register for driving and all that other garbage is just that....You cannot use the rules of priviledge to govern the quarantee of individual rights... To do that is to regress to an earlier age and history in itself has shown what that brought about.
BuzzStPoint
Daemon Poster
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I do have a State law that lets me carry a gun in a holster on the side visible to others. This is a right given to me by the state of Wisconsin.
Your point of "your fight for a right you do not need."
That proves my point even further.. If everyone said. Well we dont need to do that.. The Anti-gun people would go after my right to open-carry my gun.. Soon after the right to have a gun in city limits. Then from there a state wide ban.
As far a proving my responsibility US believe in Equal parts. meaning that when I buy a gun, They do a background check on me.. This is instant. The dealer will tell me OK or not ok. Then I must wait 2 full days (48 hours) to pick up my firearm. This is called a "Cooling off period" some states have longer time.. I believe california has a 7 day waiting period..
The waiting period is enough to prove.. Any monkey can be tought to safely use and handle a gun. Will the monkey be responsible with it? Not my posisition to call it.. Hell NASA tought a monkey to fly an airplane.
Same with Drivers permits. We have to take a small written test and drive for 2 weeks then take a driving test. Does this prove that your a responsible driver? NO. This only proved you are capable of driving. This 16 year old then parties with his friends and goes out driving after slugging down a few beers.. Happens to the best of them.
Judge not till ye be judged yourself.
Heres another example. Our States Attorney got busted for OWI.
Read here
She is suppose to a role model and a responsible person of the state trusted with many powers. Yet she didn't act very responsible.
Your point of "your fight for a right you do not need."
That proves my point even further.. If everyone said. Well we dont need to do that.. The Anti-gun people would go after my right to open-carry my gun.. Soon after the right to have a gun in city limits. Then from there a state wide ban.
As far a proving my responsibility US believe in Equal parts. meaning that when I buy a gun, They do a background check on me.. This is instant. The dealer will tell me OK or not ok. Then I must wait 2 full days (48 hours) to pick up my firearm. This is called a "Cooling off period" some states have longer time.. I believe california has a 7 day waiting period..
The waiting period is enough to prove.. Any monkey can be tought to safely use and handle a gun. Will the monkey be responsible with it? Not my posisition to call it.. Hell NASA tought a monkey to fly an airplane.
Same with Drivers permits. We have to take a small written test and drive for 2 weeks then take a driving test. Does this prove that your a responsible driver? NO. This only proved you are capable of driving. This 16 year old then parties with his friends and goes out driving after slugging down a few beers.. Happens to the best of them.
Judge not till ye be judged yourself.
Heres another example. Our States Attorney got busted for OWI.
Read here
She is suppose to a role model and a responsible person of the state trusted with many powers. Yet she didn't act very responsible.
inncidentally, we have box cutters on britain, they are called stanley knives, and yes there is a ban on having them on public places, simply because a lot of people chose to fight with them, also baned are butterfly knives, automatic flick knives, spring loaded blades, fixed blade knives, switch blades, and yes even a blade over a certain length, you are not allowed to have the concealed or not, in public because they are offensive weapons.
(unless you have a good reason -like just bought it!)
if you can give me any other (non violent) use for having a blade whilst on a public bus I'll seriously question it.
the point of licensing schemes it is does restrict everybody, however the extent to what you are restrcicted will depend on who you are...
you for instance will just have to fill in a few forms and provide an ID card, hey presto, gun is yours, a known criminal, or person thought to be likely to commit an offence will go through the same form filling process, but be denied a weapon.
IMHO, half the world is not tryng to 'copy your bill of rights' it is being forced upton them by lots of americans with guns. -who are also denynig the basic rights to others...
there is less population in rural areas, hence less crime, also people tend to live in closer communities, watching out fo each other -again lessens crime.
it's like saying that you get more shopping one going to a hypermarket rather than individual highstreet 'traditional' shops.
in response to your emphasis that you don't own a gun, I want to emphasis the fact that I do own pellet guns, and airsoftguns, for target shooting. and I also go clay shooting and game (and course) shooting with my father who does own real guns, I also (as I said before) own many knives -yes even box cutters, in fact one sits on my desk at work -especially for opening boxes!!)
I see no problem with guns in the hands of responsible people.
and I also feel that responsible people should see the need to keep weapons away from the not-so-responisble part of the population.
(unless you have a good reason -like just bought it!)
if you can give me any other (non violent) use for having a blade whilst on a public bus I'll seriously question it.
the point of licensing schemes it is does restrict everybody, however the extent to what you are restrcicted will depend on who you are...
you for instance will just have to fill in a few forms and provide an ID card, hey presto, gun is yours, a known criminal, or person thought to be likely to commit an offence will go through the same form filling process, but be denied a weapon.
IMHO, half the world is not tryng to 'copy your bill of rights' it is being forced upton them by lots of americans with guns. -who are also denynig the basic rights to others...
there is less population in rural areas, hence less crime, also people tend to live in closer communities, watching out fo each other -again lessens crime.
it's like saying that you get more shopping one going to a hypermarket rather than individual highstreet 'traditional' shops.
in response to your emphasis that you don't own a gun, I want to emphasis the fact that I do own pellet guns, and airsoftguns, for target shooting. and I also go clay shooting and game (and course) shooting with my father who does own real guns, I also (as I said before) own many knives -yes even box cutters, in fact one sits on my desk at work -especially for opening boxes!!)
I see no problem with guns in the hands of responsible people.
and I also feel that responsible people should see the need to keep weapons away from the not-so-responisble part of the population.
mark thorpe
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i carry a knife when fishing for self protection... 9 times out of 10, i fish in pretty remote areas of river, where there arent many people that come along, ive been threatened several times, and had people try to steal my equipment... flash a huge knife, and they soon go running... i dont care if its illegal... its for self protection, and protection of property... if im going to be threatened with either being beaten up, or having about 10 grands worth of fishing equipment (thats what its worth, not what i actually paid, i got most of it second hand...) im gonna protect myself...
my fishing is my main source of income at the moment... untill i get a decent job, which pays well i need to keep on fishing matches, and getting the money that comes with that, so im not going to let someone get off lightly trying to steal anything of mine...
catapaults are also pretty good... full pelt, at close range with a stone in it hurts... as one gippo found out last summer... trying to steal my (then) new pole... that wasnt gonna happen, and i didnt have the knife then, so i just picked up the catapult and a stone, and smaked the little brat in the head... and then went home quickly... lol
i dont see any problems with using things for self protection or protection of property, but carrying a gun on the streets is a bit extreme, unless you live in a right hole, where your likley to get mugged...
my fishing is my main source of income at the moment... untill i get a decent job, which pays well i need to keep on fishing matches, and getting the money that comes with that, so im not going to let someone get off lightly trying to steal anything of mine...
catapaults are also pretty good... full pelt, at close range with a stone in it hurts... as one gippo found out last summer... trying to steal my (then) new pole... that wasnt gonna happen, and i didnt have the knife then, so i just picked up the catapult and a stone, and smaked the little brat in the head... and then went home quickly... lol
i dont see any problems with using things for self protection or protection of property, but carrying a gun on the streets is a bit extreme, unless you live in a right hole, where your likley to get mugged...
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