Delta said:
Gain, I think you have a sligjtly blurred view of things in England and the rest of the UK. (I can understand why though, I bet I'm not fully aware of the gun situation in the US)
No in retrospect, you have a slightly blurred view of things of the US. There are actually very few gun related crimes in the US to begin with. In fact, the crimes committed with guns is way low.
The police are in no way afrad to do their job, in day to day work our police rarly have to worry about the threat of guns, in some ways I expect this would make the job easyer, as they dont risk being shot though a door while on everyday enquierys. For the times where guns will be involved its most likly to involve gangs that are know or suspect to be armed and in these cases we do have armed police who can deal with these situations.
Again I will bring up a link showing that a black market exists in England and an increasing amount of crimes are in fact committed by illegally owned guns.
http://www.rense.com/general12/gun.htm
"The controversial ban on the ownership of handguns which was introduced after the Dunblane massacre has failed to halt an increasing number of crimes involving firearms.
An independent report, Illegal Firearms in the UK, to be published by the Centre for Defence Studies at King's College in London tomorrow, says that handguns were used in 3,685 offences last year compared with 2,648 in 1997, an increase of 40 per cent.
The figures will renew the debate about the effectiveness of the gun ban, introduced by the last Conservative government and then extended to cover all pistols by Labour after winning the 1997 general election.
Legislation banning larger-calibre pistols was proposed by the previous Conservative government in response to the murder of 16 pupils and their teacher by Thomas Hamilton at Dunblane primary school in March 1996."
Rense is a libertarian source that is very unbiased in these matters.
In the case of shool shootings this is a diffrent issue, where illegal guns are used in this country it will it will most likly be by orginised criminals for robbery. In the UK a depressed teenager on a downer couldn't just pick up daddys gun an massacure his classmates in the heat of the moment, access to guns is just not like that in this country.
Depressed teenagers can easily get access to any black market guns that exist. Believe me in any country it is easy to get them, no matter what you do. Did you know that every LAPD squad car has M-16s in the trunk? This is because several years ago, two suspects I believe had bullet proof vests on and had specially modified AK-47s that had "cop killer" bullets (ones that pierce through vests). Luckily no cop died on that day, but many were injured. The cops are now forced to have M-16s in the trunks of their squad cars.
Those AK-47s that the suspects used were unregistered and illegally imported.
I'd also like to ask you why you and fellow Americans feel that this is a "right" and why you feel you must? Here in the UK law and order is not out of controll yet nobody owns guns. I do understand that it can deter crime, but crime is not significantly worse, if worse in this country than it is in the USA anyway.
Order is most definitely out of control.
http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/...fm?objectid=12550626&method=full&siteid=50081
"Police have voiced fears about a growing knife culture in the North after a Sunday Sun investigation discovered the number of people carrying offensive weapons has rocketed.
Our findings come at the end of an eight-day period in which a North man was killed with a samurai sword, a policeman was stabbed to death in Manchester while arresting alleged terrorists.
Using available figures from police stop-and-search operations, we can reveal that in the last year incidents in the North have risen by over 30 per cent, from 609 to 795.
A spokeswoman for Cleveland police said: "We're aware that a knife-carrying culture has been developing in Cleveland."
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What now? You want to pass legislation to ban knives? Crime is most certainly becoming a bigger problem in the UK then it is here. In fact our crimes rates here in the US (and Los Angeles for that matter) are falling. Armed officers are able to do their job better. An armed populace is able to defend themselves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3074141.stm
"The government has been accused of losing the fight against crime as figures show violent crime is up, despite a slight drop in overall offences.
Overall crime levels edged down by 3% in the year to April, police figures showed, but violent crime was up 2%.
Unadjusted figures which did not take into account new methods of recording crime said violence had rocketed by 22%."
It seems even your government is trying to cover up the reality by introducing "new methods of recording". What's that? Not counting some crimes? It appears violent crime shot up by 22%.
I also understand there would be issues in removing the right to bear arms, and it couldnt be done overnight, but removing access to guns would reduce situations like this from happening in the future. The USA is no longer the frontier, a coloney, its a contry with a police force and an army.
I don't agree. Absolutely not. The people in this country have rights and we appreciate you not tell us what freedoms we can or cannot have. Removing access to guns as I have demonstrated, will NOT DO ANYTHING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. In fact people will find other methods, like with knives.
Im not telling you how to run your country or anything, but its somthing to consider.
I don't think we should ever consider something that would water down our constitutional rights.
Edit: Oh here is a recent release on our crime rate:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/12/15/100534.shtml
"WASHINGTON -- The nation's murder rate rose slightly in the first half of the year despite a 3.1 percent drop in overall violent crime, the FBI reported Monday.
There were 1.1 percent more murders during the first six months of 2003 compared with the same period a year earlier _ the only category of violent crime to show an increase from January to June.
The biggest increase was in the Northeast, where there were 4.3 percent more murders than a year ago. There were also more homicides in the South and West, with only the Midwest showing a decrease of 1.9 percent.
Still, the total number of reported crimes of murder, manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault dropped 3.1 percent from year to year, the FBI said in its preliminary look at the nation's crime picture in 2003."